User talk:Pigsonthewing/Archive 6

Latest comment: 4 years ago by LeSoSch in topic 2019-07-28 Heidelberg
This page is an archive. Please do not modify it. Use the current page, even to continue an old discussion.

Mistakenly added another wikidata item

Hi, Andy. I mistakenly added a wikidata item Q57834303 (Sally Ann Drake), quite incorrectly. The correct item is (Sarah Ann Drake, Q7422261). I was hoping you might be able to remove my wikidata entry Q57834303. Regards & thanks, MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:31, 27 October 2018 (UTC)

@MargaretRDonald: No worries; it happens all the time. The usual solution is to merge the items (the new one into the older one); per Help:Merge. Would you like to try that, and let me know if you encounter any difficulty? I strongly recommend using the merge gadget. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:16, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: Thanks, Andy. All done. MargaretRDonald (talk) 08:43, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Edit restrictions

Per discussion on Wikidata:Administrators' noticeboard, you are subject to edit restrictions. Please read the exact wording at Wikidata:Administrators' noticeboard#Personal commentary ban and Wikidata:Administrators' noticeboard#Commenting ban. --Pasleim (talk) 22:35, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

@Pasleim: Will you now apply your admin attention to the various issues I raised in that discussion? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:41, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
User Brya and Succu are subject to the same edit restriction as you. In particular, they are not permitted to make any comments about you. I will do my best to ensure that this is complied with. --Pasleim (talk) 23:08, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
@Pasleim: That was not what I asked you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:10, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
Most of the issues you raised in the discussion were related to personal attacks. This is covered by not permitting user Brya and Succu making comments about you. --Pasleim (talk) 23:21, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
So that's a "no", then. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:26, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
I will ensure that Brya and Succu do not make any comments, inlcuding personal attacks, about you. --Pasleim (talk) 23:30, 29 October 2018 (UTC)
Again: not what I asked. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:42, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

What happens if I use SourceMD to create already present ORCID?

I don't want to break anything. I have a long list of ORCIDs. If I "Add metadata from ORCID" for one already present on wikidata, will it generate a second record or a duplicate label or anything? I don't want to have to go back and clean up a monster of problem. Thanks, -Trilotat (talk) 00:26, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

@Trilotat: I'd hope it would work that out and add to the existing record; but otherwise I run a frequent, if irregular, batch of merges, so it will get tidied up before too long. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:39, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Structured Data - IRC office hour today, 1 November

There will be an IRC office hour for Structured Data on Commons today, 1 October 2018, from 17:00-18:00 UTC in #wikimedia-office. You can find date/time conversion, as well as a link to join the chat in your browser if needed, on the IRC Office hours page on Meta. I realize this may be short notice for some people; I am experimenting with advanced notice times to see what works best for the most people, I'll be giving more warning before the next office hour. I look forward to seeing you there. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 16:02, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
The above message says 1 October in the body when it should say 1 November, as the subject line says. Apologies for making a new section by mass message, it's the only way to get this out quickly. See you in twenty minutes! -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 16:37, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Structured Data - copyright and licensing statements

I've posted a second round of designs for modeling copyright and licensing in structured data. These redesigns are based off the feedback received in the first round of designs, and the development team is looking for more discussion. These designs are extremely important for the Commons community to review, as they deal with how copyright and licensing is translated from templates into structured form. I look forward to seeing you over there. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 16:25, 2 November 2018 (UTC)


Hi Andy, I was seeing that some users use QuickStatement to create claim faster, and I'd like to use it to create claims of Map of Life ID (P6092), but I don't know how to use it. Can you help me? Mr. Fulano! Talk 21:09, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

@Mr. Fulano: Is there a particular reason that you want to use that tool? Mix'n'Match may suit it better. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:25, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Whatever for me, I only see any users using that and I think that was the best. But if Mix'n'Match is better, I prefer it. So, how can I use it? I read the manual and didn't understand so much. Mr. Fulano! Talk 23:24, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Deletion property OSZK-egységesítettnévalak (P3133)

I am requested the deletion of property 3133, because the related database is closed by Hungarian National Library Texaner (talk) 09:12, 13 November 2018 (UTC)

Journals in wikidata

Hi, Andy, Wikidata is now setting up to become a bibliographic resource. I was hoping you might be able to explain to me its intended and possible uses. (If I can imagine its utility, then I could be tempted to contribute there also.) Regards, and thanks, MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:47, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

@MargaretRDonald: Hi, I think I can best answer that by referring you to WikiCite, the project that is leading on this work. There are a number of resources for example Wikimania 2018 video Wikimania 2018 slides. If you want to get involved, you will find WD:Zotero and/or WD:SourceMD useful. Shout if you have more questions/ need help. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:55, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: Hi, Andy. Thanks for that. Will check those all out.MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:32, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

The art database DSI problems?

Dear Andy @Pigsonthewing:. I have now conducted quite a long email discussion with the contact person for DSI (Stuttgart Database of Scientific Illustrators ID) on DSI's usage of "floruit". For DSI ID 3588: M. Hart, the field "Year born" reads 1815 fl. and the field "Year died" reads 1840 fl, where the reference indicates that she flourished (floruit) between 1815 and 1840. I have argued with him at some length (in a flurry of emails) that these data entries in no way reflect the common place meanings of born, died, or flourished. I am making absolutely no progress with him: (Would I please supply some reference for the statement concerning to common place meanings of these terms and their use in databases). (In addition in DSIs view Miss Hart and M.Hart as possible siblings (relations), which is the reason for the two IDs) For all this brouhaha, please check out: DSI id: 3588: N. Hart], DSI id: 12605: Miss Hart, and Wikidata: M. Hart. Hope you have some suggestions as to how to proceed. (The key issue is of course, the strange meanings assigned to "year born" and "year died" by the compilers of DSI). Regards, MargaretRDonald (talk) 21:39, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

@MargaretRDonald: I can understand your frustration, but I'm not sure hat can be done, other than applying care when we import data. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:38, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

Regarding an interaction on the Wikidata Community Facebook page...

The tewiki page noted by "Lokesh Shetty" is the work of a cross-wiki spammer and should have been deleted a long time ago. Someone has been reverting my addition of the speedy template on that article. Mahir256 (talk) 20:47, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

@Mahir256: Indeed. But you shouldn't delete the Wikidata item until the Wikipedia page is deleted. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:36, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Species articles through Wikidata

Hi Andy, it's been a while since our last discussion! I need your advice about a project we want to start on Arabic Wikipedia. We begun generating Wikidata-based articles last months. We created, and we are still creating, bot articles about years per country, soccer players and actors (.. including for women because we need to respect our Monastir promise ;) ). We want now to start creating species articles (using a transliteration tool to translate scientific names and using wikidata-based infoboxes. In opposition to what Lsjbot is doing by preparing himself lists, we want to use Wikidata instead (including its references). My question is: Do you think that Wikidata content related to species per item is enough to generate text. What's the minimum that we can require to insure a certain quality: availability of enwiki, svwiki or even cebwiki article? a specific external link? Name of the person who described first the species? Taxon rank and parent taxon? Also, is there species items that we need to avoid because they have issues that a simple bot can not express (disputed species, ..). And how can we identify them. Take you time, and thank you in advance. --Helmoony (talk) 02:59, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

@Helmoony: That sounds like a good approach. I can't think of a better example of what can be achieved than Reasonator; here are examples for well populated and sparse items. Be aware that Wikidata and (for example) en.Wikipedia use different models of taxonomy, so pages and items do not always match 1:1 - an example of that is in the current discussion of Bismarckia. Be aware also that Wikidata has items and properties for taxon synonyms. As for minimum requirements, I suggest you do not rely on other Wikipedias, but instead look at the number of populated properties; especially external IDs. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:33, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Structured Data on Commons Newsletter - Fall 2018 edition

Welcome to the newsletter for Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons! You can update your subscription to the newsletter. Do inform others who you think will want to be involved in the project!

Community updates
Things to do / input and feedback requests


Since the last newsletter:

Presentations / Press / Events
Partners and allies
  • The info portal on Structured Commons now includes a section on GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums).
  • We are currently planning the first GLAM pilot projects that will use structured data on Wikimedia Commons. One project has already started: the Swedish Heritage Board researches and develops a prototype tool to provide improved metadata (translations, data additions...) from Wikimedia Commons back to the source institution. Read the project brief.
  • The documentation for batch uploads of files to Wikimedia Commons will be improved in 2019, as part of preparing for Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons. To prepare, the GLAM team at the Wikimedia Foundation wants to understand better which types of documentation you already use, and how you like to learn new GLAM-Wiki skills and knowledge. Fill in a short survey to provide input!
Stay up to date!

-- Keegan (WMF) (talk)

Message sent by MediaWiki message delivery - 17:58, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Amazon Music artist ID

Hi Andy! Can you please comment on this? It seems like a weird situation. The Amazon Music artist ID looks like the Amazon Standard Identification Number (P5749) but does not behave like one! Many thanks. -- Meisam (talk) 16:12, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

@Meisam: Sorry, I don't have enough information to make a useful contribution. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:50, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Multilingual captions beta testing

The Structured Data on Commons team has begun beta testing of the first feature, multilingual file captions, and all community members are invited to test it out. Captions is based on designs discussed with the community[1][2] and the team is looking forward to hearing about testing. If all goes well during testing, captions will be turned on for Commons around the second week of January, 2019.

Multilingual captions are plain text fields that provide brief, easily translatable details of a file in a way that is easy to create, edit, and curate. Captions are added during the upload process using the UploadWizard, or they can be added directly on any file page on Commons. Adding captions in multiple languages is a simple process that requires only a few steps.

The details:

  • There is a help page available on how to use multilingual file captions.
  • Testing will take place on Beta Commons. If you don’t yet have an account set up there, you’ll need one.
  • Beta Commons is a testbed, and not configured exactly like the real Commons site, so expect to see some discrepancies with user interface (UI) elements like search.
  • Structured Data introduces the potential for many important page changes to happen at once, which could flood the recent changes list. Because of this, Enhanced Recent Changes is enabled as it currently is at Commons, but with some UI changes.
  • Feedback and commentary on the file caption functionality are welcome and encouraged on the discussion page for this post.
  • Some testing has already taken place and the team are aware of some issues. A list of known issues can be seen below.
  • If you discover a bug/issue that is not covered in the known issues, please file a ticket on Phabricator and tag it with the “Multimedia” tag. Use this link to file a new task already tagged with "Multimedia."

Known issues:


-- Keegan (WMF) (talk), for the Structured Data on Commons Team 20:43, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Correio da Manhã Fund (Q59734073)

Hey Andy. Howdy? I am currently working on the creation of archival funds at the Brazilian National Archives. It is something I have never modeled before, so I gave it a first trial. Would you mind, please, taking a look at how it is? My main concerns were on how to model that documents in the funds range from 1901 to 1974, that the fund was the result of a donation, that the creator of the fund is an organization not an individual, and that the number of textual documents is measured in meters not in count (which appears to be a common measurement procedure in archives, so I was told). We have around 800 of similar entries to feed into Wikidata. Thanks a lot for your help! I hope all is well! --Joalpe (talk) 19:32, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

@Joalpe: Interesting use-case. We don't seem to have a property for including dates of the kind you mention; the closest way to model this that I can find is like this. You can show shelf-length like this, but the constraints would need to be changed (and that may require a discussion to obtain consensus). Your other attributes, listed above, look OK, but use has part(s) of the class (P2670), not has part(s) (P527). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:46, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for taking the time to look this item. Sorry for the silly question: is there an easy way to switch from P527 to P2670? --Joalpe (talk) 23:56, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
@Joalpe: AFAIK, there is no tool specifically for this (maybe there should be?), but you might be able to do something using QuickStatements. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:55, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! We indeed ran a QS on this one. Other cases were done in accordance to the agreed model. A Wikidata-generated is now active on Wikipedia in Portuguese: w:pt:Lista_de_fundos_do_Arquivo_Nacional. Later this week I will run a QS for more 20 funds. This is all associated to a GLAM initiative currently underway: w:pt:WP:ArqN. Thanks for your help! --Joalpe (talk) 11:05, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Hakea benthamii (Q42890289) & Hakea plurinervia (Q18081343)

Hi @Pigsonthewing: As you can see in wikidata, there are entries Q42890289 & Q18081343. Hakea benthamii was proposed by Ian Turner to replace Hakea plurinervia, the previously uncontested name given by Mueller to a living Hakea species. A new name for the living species was needed, since prior to Mueller and Bentham, Hakea plurinervia had been used for a fossil Hakea. All the entries including the linked entries in wikidata Q18081343 relate to the living, illegally named H. plurinervia and not the fossil. I was planning on writing an Eglish wikipedia entry for Hakea benthamii, but it should currently link to all the various wikipedia articles and commons stuff for Hakea plurinervia. Do you have any suggestions for a solution?? (Thanks) MargaretRDonald (talk) 04:03, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Structured Data - file captions coming this week (January 2019)

My apologies if this is a duplicate message for you, it is being sent to multiple lists which you may be signed up for.

Hi all, following up on last month's announcement...

Multilingual file captions will be released this week, on either Wednesday, 9 January or Thursday, 10 January 2019. Captions are a feature to add short, translatable descriptions to files. Here's some links you might want to look follow before the release, if you haven't already:

  1. Read over the help page for using captions - I wrote the page on because captions are available for any MediaWiki user, feel free to host/modify a copy of the page here on Commons.
  2. Test out using captions on Beta Commons.
  3. Leave feedback about the test on the captions test talk page, if you have anything you'd like to say prior to release.

Additionally, there will be an IRC office hour on Thursday, 10 January with the Structured Data team to talk about file captions, as well as anything else the community may be interested in. Date/time conversion, as well as a link to join, are on Meta.

Thanks for your time, I look forward to seeing those who can make it to the IRC office hour on Thursday. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 21:09, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Jura1 fake item - descriptive item used as unit


"descriptive item used as unit (Q22302160)"

What do you think about removing it from Q5? Q5 is highly used and this Jura1-claim makes Wikidata look silly. No reliable source found. Probably pure fake.

Sure, "group of organisms known by one particular common name" looks like fake too. 16:11, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

I've tried to fix that item previously, was reverted, and took the matter to the "Project chat" page. There was no community support for my improvements. You could always try the same process, and see if you have better luck. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:19, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Ziengs Schoenen

Serious question, but does that item qualify inclusion under the current notability standards? I remember that there was a vote where people were for changing it to fit Commonswiki more, but I can't remember the actual standards changing. Unfortunately there is no Wikipedia or other entry yet for this company, but if the Wikidata item will be nominated for deletion then I'll have to write one on a Wikipedia. -- Donald Trung/徵國單  (討論 🀄) (方孔錢 💴) 21:01, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

I'm specifically referring to "In addition, sitelinks on category items to category pages on Wikimedia Commons are allowed if and only if they are linked with category pages on other Wikimedia sites.", if possible we could open an RfC and explain how important this could be to structuring data on Wikimedia Commons to include this to Wikidata, although this could cause the spampocalypse (though that's a price I'm willing to pay for structured data). -- Donald Trung/徵國單  (討論 🀄) (方孔錢 💴) 21:04, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

@Donald Trung: The section you quote is disputed (and badly worded); and in practice widely ignored. Nonetheless, there is no requirement for a subject to exist in Wikipedia (or any sister project) before a Wikidata item can be created. The Wikidata notability policy allows an item to be created provided that "It refers to an instance of a clearly identifiable conceptual or material entity. The entity must be notable, in the sense that it can be described using serious and publicly available references.". In this case, the Blomberg identifier/ citation meets that test; I have no doubt there is also coverage in Dutch newspapers and magazines. By way of example we also have items for every street in the Netherlands.
That's not to say you shouldn't write a Wikipedia article anyway ;-) Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:17, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
Good points, I will ask in the project chat if that sentence could either be re-worded or removed, several discussions have preceded it but even if consensus was to re-word it nothing was done, I'll raise it again. -- Donald Trung/徵國單  (討論 🀄) (方孔錢 💴) 14:32, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

TheyWorkForYou vs They Work For You

Hi - just a quick question regarding your recent reversion, was the objection to the whole change, or specifically the removal of "They Work for You identifier" and replacement with "TheyWorkForYou identifier" in the aliases? In other words, would you consider the change acceptable if the existing "They Work for You" variants remained in the aliases?

--jacksonj04 (talk) 09:49, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Ignore me, I've only just spotted the later edit you made which puts it to this exact state of affairs! --jacksonj04 (talk) 09:51, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

P1946 RfD

See Wikidata:Properties_for_deletion#National_Library_of_Ireland_authority_ID_(P1946).--Jklamo (talk) 16:44, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Trying to update a mix'n'match catalog

Greetings, Andy. I generated GEOLEX mix'n'match catalog with one item. I thought I'd be able to figure it out as i built it, then add more items to the catalog later. Not sure I fully understand the tool, but I'm unable to upload more items. I don't have a dataset yet, but I'm assembling one line at a time (not at all savvy with scraping the data). I tried to add a few lines, but couldn't even do that. Hope you can help. Confused... Trilotat (talk) 23:21, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing: Hi. I'm sure you're a busy guy, so I'll ask if you can point me somewhere I can get smart (if that's possible) on building a mix'n'match catalog. I tried and failed, but I'd like to try again. Thanks. Trilotat (talk) 17:25, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
@Trilotat: Apologies: I somehow missed your earlier message (I wasn't ignoring you!). You can withdraw your faulty/ incomplete catalog (Actions > Catalog editor; then deselect "Active") and then create a new one, following the guide at I suggest you compile all your data before doing the latter. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:49, 6 March 2019 (UTC)



Hi @Pigsonthewing: I notice the Swedes have now taken up the taxonbar, but it is not yet widely used for biota on svwiki, in contrast to enwiki. I am wondering how to go about drawing it to the attention of all wikis. I find it almost indispensable in composing biota articles, and in checking them. And find it a great pity that other wikis fail to use them (obviously default sets of plant ids would differ among wikis). Who should I speak to? Who should I try to persuade? MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:41, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


Hi Andy. The Swedes automatically slide the image from wikidata into their plant species boxes. Would you have any suggestions as to who I should solicit to enable the putting of the "taxon range map image" into the infobox on commons and into the species/taxoboxes in the various wikis. It seems silly to be putting them up by hand, when they exist in wikidata. MargaretRDonald (talk) 19:48, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

@MargaretRDonald: For both of the above, you could post on Wikidata's "Project chat", and ask people to introduce them to the Wikipedias whose languages they speak. Template:Taxonbar (Q22741012) is analogous to Template:Authority control (Q3907614), so you could post on the talk page of the equivalent template on the (say) top 20 Wikipedias (but not German; they don't seem to take AC values from Wikidata). Likewise for Template:Taxobox (Q52496). For the infobox on Commons, use c:Template talk:Wikidata Infobox. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:54, 6 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks @Pigsonthewing: Very helpful. Will do. MargaretRDonald (talk) 20:29, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

Rate (mathematics) as properties

Good evening! I am not able to find any kind of properties for rate, as the ratio between two related quantities. Is this like it should be? Or can I start to propose things like birth rate, death rate or flow rate as properties? Breg Pmt (talk) 17:47, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

@Pmt: proportion (P1107) or scale (P1752)? unemployment rate (P1198), total fertility rate (P4841), production rate (P2197)? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:20, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Structured Data - development update, March 2019

This text is also posted on the Structured Data hub talk page. You can reply there with questions, comments, or concerns.

A development update for the current work by the Structured Data on Commons team:

After the release of multilingual file captions, work began on getting depicts and other statements ready for release. These were originally scheduled for release in February and into March, however there are currently two major blockers to finishing this work (T215642, T217157). We will know more next week about when depicts and statements can likely be ready for testing and then release; until then I've tentatively updated the release schedule.

Once the depicts feature is ready for testing, it will take place in two stages on TestCommons. The first is checking the very basics; is the design comfortable, how does the simple workflow of adding/editing/removing statements work, and building up help and process pages from there. The second part is a more detailed test of depicts and other statements, checking the edge-case examples of using the features, bugs that did not come up during simple testing, etc. Additionally we'll be looking with the community for bugs in interaction with bots, gadgets, and other scripts once the features are live on Commons. Please let me know if you're interesting in helping test and fix these bugs if they show up upon release, it is really hard to find them in a test environment or, in some cases, bugs won't show up in a testing environment at all.

One new thing is definitely coming within the next few weeks, pending testing: the ability to search for captions. This is done using the inlabel keyword in search strings, and will be the first step in helping users find content that is specifically structured data. I'll post a notice when that feature is live and ready for use.

Thanks, let me know if you have questions about these plans. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 21:34, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Structured Data - early depicts testing

The Structured Data on Commons development team has the very basic version of depicts statements available for early testing on Test-Commons. You can add very basic depicts statements to the file page by going into the new “Structured Data” tab located below the "Open in Media Viewer button." You can use the Latest Files link in the left side nav bar to select existing images, or use the UploadWizard to upload new ones to test with (although those images won’t actually show up on the site). The test site is not a fully functional replica of Commons, so there may be some overall problems in using the site, but you should be able to get a general idea of what using the feature is like.

Early next week I will call for broad, community-wide testing of the feature similar to what we did for Captions, with instructions for testing, known bugs, and a dedicated space to discuss the feature as well as a simple help page for using statements. Until then, you're welcome to post on the SDC talk page with what you might find while testing depicts.

Thanks in advance for trying it out, you'll be hearing more from me next week. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 22:00, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Editing restriction

You have been blocked 24 hours for violating Wikidata:Editing_restrictions#Brya, Pigsonthewing, Succu: HTML comments/modifying comments here. --Rschen7754 04:14, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

@Rschen7754: My edit was not, in any way, in breach of that restriction: "not permitted to use any HTML comments on discussion pages, or in messages directed at each other or to modify each other's comments, including, but not limited to: indentations, and hiding their comments.". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:52, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Hello, Andy. Please excuse my butting in here, but I thought you might find my perspective to be helpful.
  • I agree with you that the two threads on Wikidata:Project chat are strongly related, and that there is a good case for merging them together.
  • Unfortunately, I also have to agree that, given that Byra had already responded, merging the threads can reasonably be construed as modifying their comments, and hence a violation of this editing restriction.
  • Edit warring with Byra over the thread merge was unwise and bound to lead to trouble.
  • I cannot see any action on your part that could reasonably be described as a "repeated attack".
Looking forward to being able to work together with you again soon, Bovlb (talk) 17:34, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Thank you; I'm not clear why you think I might find it "helpful" for you to tell me that I modified another editor's comment, when I most certainly did not. I note that there has been no sanction on the editor who falsely accused me of making an "attack", repeated or otherwise, for that slur. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:35, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
I thought it would be "helpful" because it might help you to see that other people may not construe the situation in exactly the same way that you do. While the (in my view) unsubstantiated accusation of "repeated attacks" was not cited as a cause, I don't think it was unrelated to the other user's block, and I think you're going to have to content yourself with that. I certainly don't want to encourage you to do anything that might be interpreted as violating the "personal commentary" restriction. Cheers, Bovlb (talk) 18:59, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
  •   Comment Hi, moving someone's content can of course be perceived by this person as a modification from the content, or at least as a modification of the meaning of the content. Brya should have made their complaint without reinstalling the content, then Pigsonthewing should have been at minimum warned not to do that kind of thing that is in the best case very very clumsy (see Wikidata:Editing restrictions) and at worst an even more unwelcome provocation. Regards, Christian Ferrer (talk) 19:41, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
    • "moving someone's content" I didn't do that; I moved an entire section, quite legitimately (and nothing on Wikidata:Editing restrictions precludes such a move). The comment in question was unchanged, and maintained its position relevant to the comment to which it replied. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:48, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
      • Fine, ok, let's AGF. But in this case when Brya reinstalls the content, and knowing the liabilities between you both, that's mean that they take this personally. And at this point you should have think "ok I do not want conflict, it's not that bad, if he wants a separate part, ok let's do it", and you should not have insisted. And one additional thing I would have done was to apologize for potentially disturbing him. And nobody would have been blocked. Christian Ferrer (talk) 20:00, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
      • And this sparked an edit war, which you participated in, and was exactly the sort of thing that this remedy was crafted to address. --Rschen7754 00:23, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
        • I made single revert. That's not an "edit war". Or are you now going to pretend that there is a restriction on my making single reverts (and thereby giving another editor an effective veto over my editing), like you have pretended there is a restriction on me moving talk page sections? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:42, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
          • A single revert, yes, but + several edits. And if that lead to a conflict, yes of course it is fully inside the scope of the restriction. The purpose of this kind of restriction is to avoid/stop conflicts, isn't it? Regards, Christian Ferrer (talk) 12:12, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
            • "several edits" does not constitute an edit war. And nor are "several edits" inside the scope of the restriction. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:34, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
          • Wrong project, but this sort of situation is where I would apply Wikipedia:BOLD. If someone reverts your change, then you ought to discuss, let it go, or try something different. Doing the same change again (your single revert) is edit warring. While I agree with you that those threads were mergeable, it won't do much harm not to merge them, and there is certainly nothing urgent about doing it. This was not the sort of situation that would justify breaking the BRD cycle, regardless of any editing restrictions.
          • BTW, perhaps I should explain that I am involving myself here because I am a long-term fan of your technical work, and I want to help you navigate these shoals of conflict. I deeply appreciate your contributions, and I want to ensure that we continue to benefit from them. Bovlb (talk) 14:48, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
            • A single revert is not edit warring. BRD was not applicable, for reasons I am not permitted to explain here. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:53, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

There is further discussion, including a subsequent proposal, at WD:AN#And again. --Rschen7754 00:16, 2 April 2019 (UTC)


[3] Did you mean "facility"? Scs (talk) 10:21, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Public artworks

Hi Andy, hope everything's well with you. I see that you've added located in the administrative territorial entity (P131): Lea Bridge (Q56295488) to Friendship Tree (Q63092666). I've been wondering what level of "adminsitrative territorial entity" is right for this property. On the Wikidata list of public art in London, almost all the items have the London borough for this property, e.g. Terza Rima (Q18302297) has P131: City of Westminster (Q179351). This helpfully groups everything in the same borough together in the list, but I don't know whether this is the best principle. Are smaller units or bigger ones better? Is it a good idea to have both, using different properties, e.g. Friendship Tree would have P131: London Borough of Hackney (Q205679) and location (P276): Lea Bridge (Q2030541) (note that this isn't the electoral ward). Or should I change the query for the list to find subdivisions of the London boroughs? (I don't know how to do this yet.) Thanks, Ham II (talk) 10:05, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

There are strong arguments for using the most granular division possible, but I suppose consistency is yet more important. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:56, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. I've changed the value P131 to the borough and added P276: Lea Bridge (Q2030541). Ham II (talk) 13:27, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Your undo

Hello. Why this undo? Missing something? Regards. --Eihel (talk) 15:08, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

For the reason given in my edit summary. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:15, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Woman of the Century Wikisource links

Hi Andy, I saw you've unlinked two of the Wikisource links I added to Wikidata for Woman of the Century biographies, here and here. FYI, there are hundreds more just like these as I've been creating Woman of the Century biographies for a few years. I thought adding the Wikisource link into Wikidata was the right thing to do; sorry that it wasn't. Before removing more, I'd prefer if we could develop a plan for the way forward (besides simply unlinking), e.g. using a different linking pattern. Do you have thoughts on this? (cc: Slowking4) --Rosiestep (talk) 20:34, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

@Rosiestep, Slowking4: I tried to get some interest in planning the way forward in the discussion. It was, sadly, archived (at Wikidata:Project chat/Archive/2019/03#Incorrect Wikisource links) without any meaningful response. I've also tried on Wikisource, as Slowking4 is aware, and where I've recently been told "you essentially have to do it yourself". What I suppose is needed is a new item for each of the Wikisource pages. these could then have the biographical item added as "main subject". If there are hundreds of them, it probably needs a bot. Do you have list, or a query that will find them? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:48, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, Andy, I don't have a list of which ones I've added. But here's the Wikisource index. (cc: Slowking4) --Rosiestep (talk) 21:49, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
there was not a consensus on how to link article subjects. i would suggest developing a system to link, and not just break links. there is also described by source -- Slowking4 (talk) 12:23, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
ok - i am going through adding "described by source" about 20% done, on unrelated matter [4] cheers Slowking4 (talk) 02:21, 25 May 2019 (UTC)

Property proposal waiting

Hi Andy, Ive been involved in a property proposal which has been marked as ready for a good few weeks now but doesn't seem to be getting approved. Would you mind taking a look? perhaps there is something we haven't done correctly? or perhaps its just slipped under the radar? Any advice would be much appreciated. Cheers Jason.nlw (talk) 07:40, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

@Jason.nlw: Unfortunately, Category:Properties ready for creation has backlog (62 proposals, at the time of writing). I can only suggest you post at Wikidata:Administrators' noticeboard to ask for an admin or property-creator to act on it. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:07, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
OK thanks Andy! Jason.nlw (talk) 12:17, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

Structured Data - testing qualifiers for depicts

As you might have seen, testing is underway for adding qualifiers to depicts statements. If you have not left feedback already, the Structured Data on Commons development team is very interested in hearing about your experience using qualifiers on the file page and in the UploadWizard. To get started you can visit Test-Commons and chose a random file to test out, or upload your own file to try out the UploadWizard. Questions, comments, and concerns can be left on the Structured data talk page and the team will address them as best as they can. Thank you for your time. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 19:08, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

Help Writing a Property Porposal

Hi Andy, perhaps foolishly, as I have never done one before, I am trying to put together a property proposal for the State Library Collections - initially for unpublished material and then for published as they are managed differently in catalogues. I briefly talked to Pintoch who was very helpful about this. I understand everyone seems swamped with the amount of work but am wondering if you can give me some guidance on the statement structure - I have put together a draft below with comments on things I am not sure about? Thanks

State Library of New South Wales Unpublished Item Property An identifier for an artwork, photograph, or unpublished item in the State Library of New South Wales collections.

Statements maintained by State Library of New South Wales (Q6133813)

Country Australia (Q408)

source website for the property

Allowed values [1-9]\d{0,7}

Formatter URL$1

format constraint format as a regular expression [1-9][0-9]{0,5} - not sure about this line?

Example 1 Blue Mountains, ca. 1815-1816, watercolour drawings by John William Lewin → 110318770 Example 2 Darlinghurst Gaol, 1891, watercolour by H. L. Bertrand → 110327104 Example 3 Dr William Bland, ca. 1845, daguerreotype, G. B. Goodman → 110000167

External links

Planned use reference and permanent url for object in Institutions catalogue

Number of IDs in source - not sure about this line?

Expected completeness - not sure about this line?

Constraint status - not sure about this line?

mandatory constraint - not sure about this line?

Syntax clarification numeric string, 1 to 9 digits (English)

-- Eothan (talk) 03:03, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

@Eothan: Using the above info, I've drafted a proposal at User:Eothan/DRAFT: SLNSW unpublished item ID. Please tweak it and add a "motivation" (i.e. a short statement about why we should have the property). You can then copy the markup and post it here [5] (or I can do that for you). Some of the parameters are optional, and can be ignored. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:22, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: Wonderstuff - thanks Andy - I will get on with the motivation statement. My shout next time you are over here. Cheers Geoff. Eothan (talk) 06:26, 17 June 2019 (UTC)

BBLD ID Property properties

Property:P2580#P2302 - the settings are wrong. Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P2580#Types statistics

  1. The statistics do not show any "family name", nor does the website. This type should be removed.
  2. But the statistics show "organisation" and other types as violations. If the item classification in WD is correct, it might be sufficient to add organisation as type to remove any type violation report.

Property:P2580#P1793 - the reference URL (P854) is wrong ( Correct is

Could you remove these errors from Wikidata? 16:08, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

What is the problem? 13:48, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

At d:Property:P2580#P2302 it says for "class":

  • human
  • family
  • family name

Two things have to be fixed, maybe in two steps with proper edit explanation:

  1. Could you delete "family name" (d:Q101352)? Reason: "The BBLD does not have articles about instances of 'family name', verify at: d:Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P2580#Types statistics"
  2. Could you add "organization" (d:Q43229)? Reason: "The BBLD has information about instances of 'organization (d:Q43229)', verify at: d:Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P2580#Types statistics."

d:Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/P2580#Types statistics: The other classes marked in red [shipping line (Q1807108), educational institution (Q2385804), imperial university of the Russian Empire (Q28667313), military order (Q474717), voluntary association (Q48204), business (Q4830453), historical society (Q5774403), enterprise (Q6881511), cultural heritage site in Russia (Q8346700), registered association (Q9299236), learned society (Q955824)] are probably all subclasses of "organization" and the markers should turn to green after organization (d:Q43229) is added. Update of the statistics may need 1-10 days. 13:59, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm busy running a course at the moment; I suggest you ask on Wikidata:Project chat. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:58, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Need your help for RPG Geek ID Property Proposal

Hi Andy, I would like your help if possible to ask the creation of an Identifier for the database RPG Geek, a subset of Boardgame Geek. Here are the informations I already collected for this project :

  • Database for the property: RPG Geek (Q64848366)
  • Represents: RPG Geek (Q64848366)
  • Associated item: RPG Geek (Q64848366)
  • Data type: External identifier
  • Domain : tabletop role-playing games (Q1643932)
  • Source website for the property :
  • Allowed values : [1-9]\d{0,5}
  • Example : Call of Cthulhu (Q1027121) -->
  • Formatter URL :$1
  • See also : BoardGameGeek designer ID (P3505), Luding game ID (P3528), BoardGameGeek game publisher ID (P6160)

Thanks for your help! Pmartinolli

@Pmartinolli: I'm busy running a course at the moment; I suggest you ask on Wikidata:Project chat; or remind me next week. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:59, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Lives of the First World War template

Hi Andy, I was going to propose for a template to be created, but I see one already exists. Is is possible to update the URL, which changed on Friday 28 June 2019 to

Kind regards Keith H999 (talk) 13:45, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

@Keith H999: Do you mean an English Wikipedia template? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:56, 2 July 2019 (UTC)
Hi Andy, I am new to this, and very confused. It appears that the pre-requisite for an English Wikipedia template is that there are wikidata entries in place, which is indeed the case. I am unsure how to request such a template is created Keith H999 (talk) 11:40, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Cross-wiki vandalism from (I think this IP must be blocked globally)

Moved to Wikidata:Administrators' noticeboard#Cross-wiki vandalism from Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 06:52, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

Structured Data on Commons - IRC office hours this week, 18 July

The Structured Data team is hosting an IRC office hour this week on Thursday, 18 July, from 17:00-18:00 UTC. Joining information as well as date and time conversion is available on Meta. Potential topics for discussion are the testing of "other statements", properties that may need to be created for Commons on Wikidata soon, plans for the rest of SDC development, or whatever you might want to discuss. The development team looks forward to seeing you there. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 18:51, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Structured Data - testing other statements

You can now test using other statements for structured data on the file page on Test-Commons. Some datatypes are not yet available, such a coordinates, but further support will be extended soon. You can find more information about testing on the SDC talk page. The team looks forward to your feedback. -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 16:41, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

2019-07-28 Heidelberg


Hi Andy, Thank you for coming to our Symposium, we enjoyed your talks. --Felix.pahmeier (talk) 14:12, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Hello Andy

Dont have money to buy a beer :( --Kate2342 (talk) 14:13, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


Heidelberg says Hello.--Communicatescience (talk) 14:13, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Andy!

I prefer pigs in a blanket instead of pigs on the wing. --A.lindsa (talk) 14:14, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


Seas Andy,

kim auf bayern und trink a echts Bier!

Ma siagt si, --Margan96 (talk) 14:14, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


thanks for the great talk at heidelberg! --NikolausGoessl (talk) 14:15, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Díky, Andy!

Máme lepší pivo, než v Bavorsku. Přijeď do ČR! --LTere (talk) 14:17, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


Thanks for the talk! Do you like Birmingham City?--Wikiq7 (talk) 14:19, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Andy!

Wikidata is amazing! --Zauderkuenstler (talk) 14:18, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


Hello, thanks for the interesting talk today! --F.Rosing (talk) 14:22, 27 July 2019 (UTC)


Thanks for the great workshop and talk today! Hope you enjoy the German beer!LeSoSch (talk) 14:27, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Return to the user page of "Pigsonthewing/Archive 6".