Property talk:P1367

Active discussions


Art UK artist ID
authority control identifier for artists (creators of publicly owned oil paintings in the UK)
RepresentsArt UK artist identifier (Q19847649)
Associated itemArt UK (Q7257339), Art UK (Q7257339)
Applicable "stated in" valueArt UK website (Q105003187)
Data typeExternal identifier
Template parameteren:Template:Art UK bio
According to this template: painters, even if painting was "just" a hobby for them, and they are not tagged as such on Wikidata
According to statements in the property:
human (Q5) or group of humans (Q16334295)
When possible, data should only be stored as statements
Allowed values[a-z\-0-9]{12,70} (12 to 70 lowercase letters, digits and dashes, no spaces)
ExampleBernardino da Asola (Q2898912)bernardino-da-asola-active-c-15251550
Kathleen Bridle (Q20640622)bridle-kathleen-18971989
Formatter URL$1
Tracking: usageCategory:Pages using Wikidata property P1367 (Q45314866)
Related to country  United Kingdom (Q145) (See 202 others)
See alsoArt UK venue ID (P1602), Art UK artwork ID (P1679), Art UK collection ID (P1751), Dictionary of Sculptors in Britain ID (P7430)
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses
Main statement24,25260.7% of uses
Qualifier2<0.1% of uses
Reference15,67339.3% of uses
Search for values
[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
Format “[a-z\-0-9]{6,70}: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1367#Format, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Single value: this property generally contains a single value. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Known exceptions: Bob and Roberta Smith (Q15493566)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1367#Single value, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Distinct values: this property likely contains a value that is different from all other items. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1367#Unique value, hourly updated report, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value), SPARQL (new)
Type “human (Q5), group of humans (Q16334295): element must contain property “instance of (P31)” with classes “human (Q5), group of humans (Q16334295)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1367#type Q5, Q16334295, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as reference (Q54828450): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1367#scope, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Required qualifier “number of works (P3740): this property should be used with the listed qualifier. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1367#mandatory qualifier, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1367#allowed entity types, SPARQL (new)
  Works with creator missing link
List of works that have Art UK artwork ID (P1679) set, but that creator doesn't have a Art UK artist ID (P1367) link (Help)
Violations query: SELECT ?item ?creator WHERE { ?item wdt:P1679 [] . ?item wdt:P170 ?creator . MINUS { ?creator wdt:P1367 [] } . MINUS { ?item wdt:P170 wd:Q4233718 } . SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en,nl" } } ORDER BY ?creatorLabel
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1367#Works with creator missing link
  Probably death
People with Art UK artist ID (P1367) born before the year 1900, but no date of death (P570) (Help)
Violations query: SELECT DISTINCT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P1367 [] . ?item p:P569 ?birthclaim . MINUS { ?item p:P570 [] } ?birthclaim ps:P569 ?birth . FILTER(?birth < "+1900-00-15T00:00:00Z"^^xsd:dateTime) . } ORDER BY ?birth LIMIT 1000
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P1367#Probably death

Over-strict constraintsEdit

Valid IDs include some with dates (such as Kathleen Bridle (Q20640622) -> bridle-kathleen-18971989; and Alfred Rozelaar Green (Q20054093) -> green-alfred-rozelaar-b-1917). Please can someone adjust the constraints, accordingly? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:24, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

@Pasleim, Ivan A. Krestinin:? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:25, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
@Pigsonthewing: I can't see the issue. There is no format violation. Where did you run into problems? --Pasleim (talk) 08:36, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
They were rejected as constraint violations by the 'Harvest Templates' tool. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
'Harvest Templates' returns "Constraint violations: unique value". So it's not related to the format constraint but to the fact that these items are duplicates. In case of Kathleen Bridle (Q20640622) I could find Kathleen Bridle (Q21466325). --Pasleim (talk) 12:27, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Ah, apologies for misreading that. Thanks. I've merged the two items. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:37, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Use of P1114 (Quantity) as a qualifierEdit

Multichill (talkcontribslogs) has asked me to seek some wider thoughts on the use of quantity (P1114) as a qualifier, to indicate the number of paintings currently showing in the Art UK database associated with a particular Art UK identifier.

I'm keen to have this because it seems to be valuable information to have in its own right; also potentially valuable for sorting and filtering; and, fundamentally, because I want to include it in a template for use on en-WP, where very often at the moment it is given as part of the text in the external links section: eg "133 Paintings by en:Titian at the Art UK site" -- giving the reader an indication of how much they're likely to find if they click the links.

It seemed to me a fairly trivial thing to add, using quantity (P1114) as a qualifier on Art UK artist ID (P1367), so this morning I began adding the information using Quick Statements, like this: diff; so far about 8,500 are done, out of a full 20,000.

But Multichill says it feels wrong to him, and potentially confusing to users; so has asked me to get wider input.

Briefly, I think there are two questions: where and how to add this information. (Okay maybe also a third: if we should add it, but I hope I've already spoken to that).

  • Where: It makes sense to me to add the information as a qualifier on P1367, rather than (say) on the main item, because the datum relates specifically to the number of paintings presented for the particular identifier. (Currently there are about 50 artists with two different identifiers, linking to two different pages at Art UK, with two different sets of paintings on them. It's useful to track these separately, as we link to them separately). So to me it seems to make sense to store the information as a qualifier on the value of P1367.
  • How: Which property, then, to use? quantity (P1114) seemed the most generic, for a "quantity, total number, number of instances, number, amount, total" as its list of (English-language) equivalent names specify for it -- in this case to record a "number of instances" of painting records attached to this identifier.

Yes, the result may be a little cryptic, displaying just "quantity" for the prompt, but the meaning should become apparent enough when clicking through. To me it seems a pretty good fit, at least for the time being.

Of course if people feel that the creation of some special-purpose subproperty of P1114 specifically for this kind of use would be useful, rather than just the generic P1114, that's fine, and there might well be a case for that.

But for the moment, I'd quite like to complete the population of the qualifier using P1114 for the time being, so that the data can be in place and complete and usable. (It doesn't make a lot of sense to have it half-in and half-out of the database.) If desired, it would seem to be a standard enough bot job at any time in the future to migrate the information from P1114 to any new more specific property that might be created for the purpose.

I'd quite like to get on with this, because it's going to be a fair amount of work to roll out the template on en-wiki to use this, and I would like to get on. (Also I have other things I need to get on to work on). Art UK have already been 'disappointed' they haven't been getting more hits from us, in part because they're not identifying as coming from us the ones that are getting redirected on from links to their old BBC site. So the sooner those wikitext links can get replaced with templated links to their new site the better. Which is going to need some clean up. It would be nice if this clean up could deal with the "number of paintings" information too, so that it could all be done in one go, rather than first putting the template in, and then having to do a further second clean up to remove any hard wikitext "number of paintings" figures.

So I'd be grateful for quite prompt feedback. Firstly, is it okay to finish the Quick Statements run to complete populating the P1114 qualifiers? Secondly, looking further forward, is quantity (P1114) the appropriate property to use for this qualifier, or would it make sense to create some new more-specific subproperty?

Looking forward to your input, Jheald (talk) 21:58, 6 February 2017 (UTC)

while it's not something I've seen done before (putting qualifiers like this on an external id), as you've presented it it makes sense to me and I would advocate that you complete the Quick Statements work on this for this property. I do agree that a more specific property than quantity (P1114) would be a good idea here - maybe something like "number of database records"? ArthurPSmith (talk) 16:01, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
Hi James, as one of the people who added that text many times in the early days, I can say I am unsure how desirable or useful it is anymore, now that I know that (to use your example) the UK does *not* have 133 paintings by Titian, but 133 paintings that have been classified with some flavor of Titian creation (by/copy of/school of/workshop/after). So without saying what the number is can be very misleading I think. On the whole you need this to show some level of completion, but on the other hand it is not clear to me that we need items for every 19th-century copy of a painting that was in a London exhibition. Maybe we do, but you need to give me a use case scenario. Thanks for all your work on this dataset, btw. Jane023 (talk) 14:13, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
That's true. I was thinking to restyle the en-wiki template text to be "133 paintings by or after Titian at Art UK" to make that clear. But I do still think it's useful to be able to give people an indication of how much to expect to find, if they click a link. Another quite practical use is to make sure that everything's accounted for if Art UK have merged or split an identifier -- have we suddenly lost half the paintings compared to what we had, or gained an unusual number? I think it can be quite useful to help with that. I also certainly find the number of paintings column quite useful on the tracking pages on en-wiki (which can be sorted on that column), to prioritise eg which Art UK painters to try to run down RKD matches for using Mix'n'match -- yes, a crude measure, but not without use. So I could imagine other people finding it useful to be able to limit a query to eg just the most represented Art UK painters for focus on some quality drive, cutting out the long tail of people with just one or two paintings. One thing I don't see it as is as in any way normative on the Sum of All Paintings project -- it's up to that project to decide what they want to include or not. But I can see for other catalogues a similar usage might have that value -- eg a league table of which artists have the most complete or incomplete coverage in the PQRST Gallery catalogue. However, my primary objective here is that I think that it would be useful on the en-wiki Art UK template, and would make the best links more interesting and encourage click through, which would I think be good all round: for us, for users, for Art UK. Jheald (talk) 15:11, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
All uses of quantity (P1114) as a qualifier now changed to number of works (P3740) Jheald (talk) 14:43, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
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