Property talk:P170
Latest comment: 8 months ago by Agowa in topic Add P2031 and P2032 for ongoing and changing creative work?
Documentation
creator
maker of this creative work or other object (where no more specific property exists)
maker of this creative work or other object (where no more specific property exists)
[create Create a translatable help page (preferably in English) for this property to be included here]
Value type “human (Q5), group of humans (Q16334295), group of fictional characters (Q14514600), machine (Q11019), animal (Q729), organization (Q43229), collective pseudonym (Q16017119), software (Q7397), optical telescope (Q35273), agent (Q24229398), dressage horse (Q60198807), profession (Q28640)”: This property should use items as value that contain property “instance of (P31)”. On these, the value for instance of (P31) should be an item that uses subclass of (P279) with value human (Q5), group of humans (Q16334295), group of fictional characters (Q14514600), machine (Q11019), animal (Q729), organization (Q43229), collective pseudonym (Q16017119), software (Q7397), optical telescope (Q35273), agent (Q24229398), dressage horse (Q60198807), profession (Q28640) (or a subclass thereof). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P170#Value type Q5, Q16334295, Q14514600, Q11019, Q729, Q43229, Q16017119, Q7397, Q35273, Q24229398, Q60198807, Q28640, SPARQL
Type “work (Q386724), item of collection or exhibition (Q18593264), project (Q170584), statement (Q2684591), event (Q1656682), agreement (Q321839), group of works (Q17489659), hypothetical entity (Q18706315), product (Q2424752), artificial object (Q16686448), human activity (Q61788060), symbol (Q80071), concept (Q151885), system (Q58778), genre (Q483394), fictional entity (Q14897293), social media account (Q102345381), attraction (Q2800000), campaign (Q6056746), brand (Q431289), optical illusion (Q174923), family tree (Q189977)”: item must contain property “instance of (P31), subclass of (P279)” with classes “work (Q386724), item of collection or exhibition (Q18593264), project (Q170584), statement (Q2684591), event (Q1656682), agreement (Q321839), group of works (Q17489659), hypothetical entity (Q18706315), product (Q2424752), artificial object (Q16686448), human activity (Q61788060), symbol (Q80071), concept (Q151885), system (Q58778), genre (Q483394), fictional entity (Q14897293), social media account (Q102345381), attraction (Q2800000), campaign (Q6056746), brand (Q431289), optical illusion (Q174923), family tree (Q189977)” or their subclasses (defined using subclass of (P279)). (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). Known exceptions: Earth (Q2)List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P170#Type Q386724, Q18593264, Q170584, Q2684591, Q1656682, Q321839, Q17489659, Q18706315, Q2424752, Q16686448, Q61788060, Q80071, Q151885, Q58778, Q483394, Q14897293, Q102345381, Q2800000, Q6056746, Q431289, Q174923, Q189977, SPARQL
Qualifiers “possible creator (P1779), workshop of (P1774), follower of (P1775), circle of (P1776), manner of (P1777), forgery after (P1778), school of (P1780), after a work by (P1877), sourcing circumstances (P1480), subject named as (P1810), nature of statement (P5102), applies to part, aspect, or form (P518), determination method or standard (P459), object of statement has role (P3831), work location (P937), country of citizenship (P27), object named as (P1932), statement supported by (P3680), statement disputed by (P1310), reason for deprecated rank (P2241), reason for preferred rank (P7452), point in time (P585), author name string (P2093), Wikimedia username (P4174), URL (P2699), Flickr user ID (P3267), subject has role (P2868), member of the crew of (P5096), ethnic group (P172), residence (P551), of (P642), applies to work (P10663), website username or ID (P554), together with (P1706), fabrication method (P2079), YouTube handle (P11245), YouTube channel ID (P2397)”: this property should be used only with the listed qualifiers. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P170#allowed qualifiers, SPARQL
Allowed entity types are Wikibase item (Q29934200), Wikibase MediaInfo (Q59712033): the property may only be used on a certain entity type (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P170#Entity types
Scope is as main value (Q54828448), as qualifier (Q54828449): the property must be used by specified way only (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P170#Scope, hourly updated report, SPARQL
None of unknown (Q24238356): value must not be any of the specified items.
Replacement property:
Replacement values: (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P170#none of, hourly updated report, SPARQLReplacement property:
Replacement values: (Help)
Conflicts with “instance of (P31): human (Q5)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P170#Conflicts with P31, search, SPARQL
Conflicts with “instance of (P31): album (Q482994)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P170#Conflicts with P31, search, SPARQL
None of anonymous (Q4233718): value must not be any of the specified items.
Replacement property:
Replacement values: (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). Replacement property:
Replacement values: (Help)
List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P170#none of, SPARQL
Conflicts with “instance of (P31): podcast episode (Q61855877), podcast (Q24634210)”: this property must not be used with the listed properties and values. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist. Exceptions can be specified using exception to constraint (P2303). List of violations of this constraint: Database reports/Constraint violations/P170#Conflicts with P31, SPARQL
Creator was not alive when the work was created
The birth date of the creator is after the creation date or the death date of the creator is before the creation date. (Help)
Violations query:
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P170#Creator was not alive when the work was created
The birth date of the creator is after the creation date or the death date of the creator is before the creation date. (Help)
Violations query:
SELECT DISTINCT ?item { { SELECT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P170 ?creator . ?item p:P571/psv:P571 ?inception_node . ?creator p:P569/psv:P569 ?birth_node . ?birth_node wikibase:timeValue ?birth . ?birth_node wikibase:timePrecision ?birth_precision . ?inception_node wikibase:timeValue ?inception . ?inception_node wikibase:timePrecision ?inception_precision . FILTER (?inception_precision >= 9) . FILTER (?birth_precision >= 9) . FILTER (?inception < ?birth) } } UNION { SELECT ?item WHERE { ?item wdt:P170 ?creator . ?item p:P571/psv:P571 ?inception_node . ?creator p:P570/psv:P570 ?death_node . ?death_node wikibase:timeValue ?death . ?death_node wikibase:timePrecision ?death_precision . ?inception_node wikibase:timeValue ?inception . ?inception_node wikibase:timePrecision ?inception_precision . FILTER (?inception_precision >= 9) . FILTER (?death_precision >= 9) . FILTER (?inception > ?death) . } } FILTER (?item NOT IN (wd:Q7574240) ) #Add Exceptions here as comma seperated list (format: wd:QID) }List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Complex constraint violations/P170#Creator was not alive when the work was created
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Value unknown (Q24238356) will be automatically replaced to value SOMEVALUE. Testing: TODO list |
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This property is being used by:
Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.) |
Rename / specify
editThis property was originally meant for artists. We should therefore rename it in "artist" (en:Template:Infobox artwork). See also: author (Property:P50) and composer (Property:P86). The property "designer" (cars, software etc.) is requested @ Wikidata:Property proposal. --Kolja21 (talk) 04:53, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
- Actually both are rather ambiguous. "creator" could be used for other things, and "artist" sounds like a natural alias for musical performer. The nice thing about "creator" is that it is more flexible and can therefore apply to things that are not really artworks. Ok, that is debatable whether this is a nice thing or not. There may be other names that we did not think about. The British Museum uses production person, not very elegant but possibly less ambiguous. --Zolo (talk) 08:06, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
- The English name is ambiguous, but not the proposed description: "creator of a work of art (e.g. painting, sculpture)". The vote ("Pro for use with artists - creators of paintings, sculpture") was also clear. If we keep P170 generic ("maker of a creative work or other object (where no more specific property exists)", we need a second property for the original use. --Kolja21 (talk) 21:44, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
- This is a tough one so my hope was to keep it generic, even though I primarily see it being used to mean "visual artist". (And splitting "visual artist" into more specific properties is just asking for trouble; there are too many forms of art to create "___er" for them all!) "Artist" is ambiguous and will lead to incorrect use versus the more specific "performer" property. Since we have properties now for manufacturer, performer, stuff related to film and TV, etc., I am hoping that this property becomes used for visual arts and other creators of non-manufactured "objects". Also, the value does not always have to be a person; it could be a historical culture/society. This property has not been used much yet, but I see that it's been attached to creators of video game characters, etc. I can't argue against that use, because I'm not sure what other property would be better. Therefore I would support that use for any fictional character as well. Espeso (talk) 02:03, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
- With translations like "Erschaffer" (literally correct) it's keep getting worth. "God" is the "creator" of the world, Bill Gates of Microsoft etc. An explanatory note like "meant primarily for visual arts" would be a great help for editors and translators. --Kolja21 (talk) 04:32, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
... a year later: I've added the property documentation. There are now also developer (P178), designed by (P287) and programmer (P943). --Kolja21 (talk) 01:48, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
originator of model
editIs P170? Fractaler (talk) 14:22, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
applies to part - as a qualifier
edit⟨ Sistine Chapel (Q2943) 
⟩ creator (P170) ⟨ Michelangelo (Q5592) ⟩
applies to part, aspect, or form (P518) ⟨ interior decoration (Q5875045) ⟩
⟩ creator (P170) ⟨ Michelangelo (Q5592) ⟩applies to part, aspect, or form (P518)
⟨ interior decoration (Q5875045) ⟩is currently being discussed as a model for specifying who created an aspect of a building, Wikidata:Project_chat#Decorated_by ... it throws up a property constraint issue on creator (P170) not allowing applies to part applies to part, aspect, or form (P518) as a qualifier. Might we add P518 as a valid qualifier to this property? The model seems to work - see the current Q2943#P170. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:05, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
- I just added this to San Baudelio de Berlanga (Q1126981) and Sala dei Notari (Q3469439), both for the painter of the frescos, but I don't think this is optimal. Making a distinct item might be the better approach. --- Jura 15:26, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- In many combinations, it's actually quite useful. Sample query: [1] --- Jura 15:50, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Ministerial positions
editIn the UK, the Prime Minister can create new ministerial positions. Should positions be accepted as having this property? John Cross (talk) 09:05, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Change of how anonymous is used
editFollowing Wikidata:Requests for comment/Cleaning up the ontology of anonymous Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Item_structure#Use_of_creator_(P170)_in_uncertain_cases was updated. This need some careful sorting out before adding mandatory constraint violations. Multichill (talk) 19:17, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
- All sorted out so I added the constraint again. Multichill (talk) 12:22, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
The value for creator should not be anonymous
editHi, What's wrong here: Q60778688? Thanks, Yann (talk) 19:41, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
Label in French is not gender neutral
editThe label in French "créateur" is the male form and is not gender neutral. I propose three solutions to this issue :
- the inclusive form : "créateur.ice"
- the male or female form : "créateur ou créatrice"
- the verbal form : "créé.e par"
What do you prefer? PAC2 (talk) 07:11, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
- Hi, I think I would favour "créateur·ice" "or créé·e par" which is the more modern form with a "point médian". I agree with the fact that using masculine form is far from neutral and we should try to fix this in languages that use gendered forms.
One remark : the verbal form in effect excluding the gender of the creator seems the best solution to avoid endless debates.
Nattes à chat (talk) 09:51, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
- I would prefer to keep the current label. Plus, if you really want to be inclusive, the label of the property should be something along "créateur/créatrice, artiste, peintre, sculpteur/sculptrice, photographe, auteur/autrice, artisan/artisan, etc." the label is only representing a very tiny portion of what the property really means and the "correct" word is highly contextual ; that's why it should be contextualized by the tool reusing Wikidata not in Wikidata itself. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 11:27, 11 November 2021 (UTC)
I understand that the label is only a tiny portion of the meaning but why should this tiny portion be reduced to the male form?
I think that using the male form as a label is bad for at least to reasons :
- It reinforces gender stereotypes and let believe that creators are by default men. There is no reason that Wikidata contribute to this kind of gender stereotypes
- Women and non binary people coming to Wikidata may feel excluded from the community because there is a wide use of male form as a generic form.
@VIGNERON: PAC2 (talk) 08:38, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
I've launched a request for comments : Wikidata:Requests for comment/How to avoid to use male form as a generic form in property labels in French ? PAC2 (talk) 20:35, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
I've launched a voting process here Wikidata:Requests for comment/How to avoid to use male form as a generic form in property labels in French ? PAC2 (talk) 06:40, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
Various artists
editI noticed that user:Fantastoria various authors (Q2818964) as an exception to this property. This property should probably be used only in author (P50). I understand the need to model various artists like on Hommes illustres (Q3139813): series of statues on the exterior of the Louvre in Paris, France (others). I think using the same approach as anonymous (Q4233718) (documentation) is the best approach, but I'm not sure if we should use various artists (Q3108914): special purpose performer (P175) credit used for compilations, tribute albums, soundtracks, etc. or some other item. Any thoughts? Multichill (talk) 10:24, 23 April 2022 (UTC)
Value-type constraint should include creator (Q2500638)
editI'm seeing a value-type constraint issue when setting a this property with the a member of the creator class (Q2500638). I imagine the latter should be included in the constraint. The root of the issue could also be that creator is note a subclass of human. Thoughts?
French label
editFollowing this request for comments, the French label now includes the male and the female form. PAC2 (talk) 04:30, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
Contemporary?
editShould this property get the constraint contemporary constraint (Q25796498)? It seems like this should always be the case, but perhaps I am missing something. Ainali (talk) 12:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- There have been authors who have died before finishing a work and had their work published posthumous, IIRC J.R.R. Tolkien had at least one such book which was finished by his son and published. I guess the real question is, how many such instances and false positives are there? Infrastruktur (talk) 15:20, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
- Sure, but I am not talking about publication date (P577) now, which obviously more often could be much later. But yes, for works with multiple authors, it might not be contemporary with all of them, but I guess most often, like your son of Tolkien example, with at least one. Ainali (talk) 21:43, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
Add P2031 and P2032 for ongoing and changing creative work?
editShould we add "work period (start)" and "work period (end)" the to "allowed qualifiers constraint" section to indicate when a specific creator joined/left (aka. started/ended to participate in) a specific project?
Especially for OpenSource projects (not just software) it is very common (especially for very popular ones) that the creators keep changing. Some may join other leave. Or should we just add all of the creators without the time period of their involvement in the project? But that could be seen as giving way too much or way too little credit.
E.g. If someone wrote the initial version of something, then continued evolving it for a few years and then handed it over to someone else and that person only kept it going for a few months before passing it on themselves to another person (or maybe even the original creator again) and they continued building upon that work having the information about their work period start/end could be very interesting. Agowa (talk) 21:05, 25 February 2024 (UTC)