User talk:Pigsonthewing/Archive 3

Latest comment: 6 years ago by Pigsonthewing in topic 2017-09-06
This page is an archive. Please do not modify it. Use the current page, even to continue an old discussion.

claims and properties


happy christmas from Western Australia.

I have just had a rather un-nerving experience at Kenneth MacKenzie

I have approved a claim

but they seem to 'bounce back' as blue items...

And then, after a time they all reappear

Am I missing something?

Trust all is well with you


Tom aka Jarrah etc  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by JarrahTree (talk • contribs) at 08:56, 25 December 2016‎ (UTC).

All good here; hope you and yours are well. Are you using "Primary sources Tool"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:56, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Property for reference to archives

Hello Andy! I wrote my ideas about references here: Help talk:Sources#How to reference to Scientific Archives.

Should I wait for somebody help? Or should I write about this idea at this page Wikidata:Property proposal? -- Andrew Krizhanovsky (talk) 11:33, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

I'd suggest the latter, after waiting a few days for comments. Bear in mind it's Christmas in the western-Christian tradition, and Hanukkah for Jewish people, so fewer folk are around to respond. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:58, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

Quora and Roberto Benigni

I don't know how Quora work so ask to you. In Roberto Benigni (Q23301) you have added link to quora: link but the page say "No Stories Yet" it's normal? I mean the page exist but without content. It's a valid page? --ValterVB (talk) 13:00, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes it is valid. Also: elsewhere on the page (for me, on the right-hand side, YMMV) is the text "5 questions". That links to Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:35, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
I had not seen, thanks --ValterVB (talk) 14:52, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Unused properties

This is a kind reminder that the following properties were created more than six months ago: MalaCards ID (P1583), Name Assigning Authority Number (P1870), SEED number (P2524), Merck Index monograph (P1738), MarineTraffic Port ID (P1624), National Pipe Organ Register ID (P1763). As of today, these properties are used on less than five items. As the proposer of these properties you probably want to change the unfortunate situation by adding a few statements to items. --Pasleim (talk) 19:26, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

format constraints

Hey. Please do no add spaces to the format patterns. This results in wrong violation reports. I also think you shouldn't add mandatory=true from the beginning on. The goal of Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/Mandatory constraints/Violations is to prevent data structure degradation and not listing erroneous initial imports. Criterias to add mandatory=true are among others that the violations count is zero and the property has existed for some time. --Pasleim (talk) 13:26, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

The former was discussed on Project Chat a few days ago, after I raised a concern, and I haven't included any since. Do you have an evidence for the latter point? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:58, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
Wikidata:Database reports/Constraint violations/Mandatory constraints --Pasleim (talk) 14:11, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
OK, thanks. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:04, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

Sources as qualifiers

imported from Wikimedia project (P143) shouldn't be used as qualifier, please add it as source (together with date of retrieval would be great). Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 14:32, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. Fixes in hand. Retrieval date can't be done in QuickStatements. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:28, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
I read before posting: I just mentioned the policy which should be used in WD: for DB, you need stated in, title, retrieved date and DB ID. For website you need stated in, title, retrieved date and URL. Just in case... Snipre (talk) 12:30, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
"need"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:24, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

ORCID institutions

Hi Andy,

I discovered you are Wikipedian in residence at ORCID, it's fantastic! Yet another commitment to open data from ORCID, that's great.

I was recently working with the academic institutions present in the ORCID API. When a user fills in their affiliation details, they are exposed in the JSON API like this:

As you can see, ORCID uses a curated list of institutions to give unique identifiers to the institutions input by the users (via auto-completion). In this case it is an identifier coming from the Ringgold database, which is proprietary unfortunately. There are also cases where a Fundref identifier is exposed (which is much more useful, as Fundref ids are DOIs that can be resolved to a JSON payload, like this: ).

Wouldn't it be great if these identifiers were aligned with Wikidata? Wikidata contains a very decent database of academic institutions, which are linked to various identifiers, but as far as I can tell there are no Ringgold ids or Fundref ids yet. I know you have a lot of experience in aligning identifiers so I would be really interested to know if you had any idea how to tackle this. How hard would it be?

I believe the first step would be to request the creation of the relevant properties (that's easy). Then, say we want to add Fundref ids to Wikidata. We can match on the following common attributes:

  • Primary name
  • Alternate names
  • Country

What kind of matching would you go for?

I think Ringgold stores much more information than fundref, so the matching might be easier, but you need to have access to the database in the first place. Are there any chances you could have such an access, being affiliated with ORCID?

Best regards, − Pintoch (talk) 17:36, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

I've previously approached Ringgold, and sadly they were not willing to make their data, which is proprietary, available to Wikidata. I note that someone recently proposed a Ringgold property, but I have not yet formed a view on that. We already have P1905 (P1905). As for matching IDs, website URLs can help, but we need to be careful of matching subdivisions against main bodies. Mix'n'match (Q28054658) may be useful in that regard, too. You should also be aware of the recently-founded organization identifier project, in which ORCID is a lead player. You may also be interested in en:WP:ORCID/About you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:02, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for these links, they are very useful! I have added my support for the Ringgold id property. It is a bit sad that P1905 (P1905) uses the canonical institution name instead of its number. I guess we could use DOI (P356) for numeric identifiers (with the additional DOI prefix). The organization identifier project looks great! − Pintoch (talk) 18:26, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
I have matched the Open ISNI dataset with Ringgold IDs: we now have about 300 000 institutions with both ISNI and Ringgold, about 100k with ISNI only and 100k with Ringgold only (for which I suspect there is a strong overlap but my conservative matching method did not detect that). The result can be downloaded here. I have uploaded the first half of the matching institutions to Mix'n'Match under the name "OpenISNI-1". The dataset uses ISNI as identifiers to leverage the existing statements for this property but it will be easy to add the corresponding Ringgold IDs. − Pintoch (talk) 10:16, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Feeding Wikidata and Visualising knowledge graphs for multi-disciplinary research

Hi Andy,

before writing you I must congratulate on your nick choice - a magic song of 1977 that would have shaped by youth for years to come. Said that, I am reaching you out for three matters.

  1. Guidance for feeding Wikidata
  2. Visualising Knowledge Graphs for multi-disciplinary research (it may apply to ORCID insitutions and researchers too, I would be happy to listen to a use case and elaborate on that)
  3. Visualising knowledge Graph of TED talks.

the focus of my research on the last years have been on knowledge discovery - knowledge graphs modelling and UX to overview and summarise knowledge maps. As a test, I exposed a knowledge graph computed on a subset of wikidata, paired with English Wikipedia. You find the prototype here -

Currently, I am also working on two proof of concepts to speed up multi-disciplinary research.

My proposal for [1] is to index data of public domain on wikidata, with a particular interest in exposing correlations between companies and investor and facilitate knowledge transfer from academia. I would like to have guidance if possible to run bots to feed entities and properties in Wikidata by crawling the web. I also posted

My proposal for [2] is about speeding up tech transfer in academia: since you are curating db of ORCID, I wonder exposing the graph of ORCID can bring value to institutional collaboration.

My proposal for [3] is exposing the graph of TED talks can bring value to outreach of TED content. They closed the APIs, although content is in CC - I read on your page you worked on their behalf, and think your feedback could be valuable here. Currently all of the visualisation for web would be exploiting an expanded-on-demand graph: it is possible to edit graphs, save and share the knowledge maps for future reference, and index each element of the graph with third party content (e.g. a ted talk, a scientific article, a researcher, and so on). On mobile, through native apps, I designed interaction to summarise pathways between entities (an app is available for iOS to visualise the mindmap of Wikipedia).

Looking forward to hear from your feedback.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gg4u (talk • contribs) at 20:05, 10 February 2017‎ (UTC).

I see you've already had some answers at Wikidata:Project chat#Using bots to programmatically feed (new) categories. I'm not sure what else you're asking here, but I urge to to acquire some experience of making routine manual edits to Wikidata before embarking on a large bot scheme. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:38, 10 February 2017 (UTC)


HI, I happened to notice you answer stuff on Quora as well. How often do you answer questions? MechQuester (talk) 05:55, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

See Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:09, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
Glad to see plenty of questions. MechQuester (talk) 16:57, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Vision of Britain

It seems we both emailed Prof. Southall. How do you want to take this forward? Jheald (talk) 16:44, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

DBC id

Hello, As you helped me about RERO id, would you help me please about this request. Thanks. Gtaf (talk) 14:31, 19 February 2017 (UTC)


Hello! ~Would you mind taking one minute to review Wikidata:Property proposal/Iditarod ID? It would help me complete the treatment of this wave of sports-related property proposals that we have had recently. Thank you for what you've done already. Thierry Caro (talk) 07:26, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

WikiProject Universities

Logo for the Wikidata Wikiproject Universities


There are a few of us who seem to be interested in improving the coverage of academic institutions in Wikidata, so I have started the WikiProject Universities to coordinate our efforts. I'd like to make a sort of dashboard of the progress on various tasks, which would help us find out what is a good use of our time. (For instance by avoiding to add manually some stuff that can be imported from some database.) Feel free to join!

Cheers − Pintoch (talk) 08:49, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Bot issue

this was wrong. — Finn Årup Nielsen (fnielsen) (talk) 20:54, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Indeed. With 145K topics paired to items so far, there are bound to be a small handful of false matches. You revert is fine. Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:29, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

retrieved date

I don't understand this diff [1].

This is the date that I checked the URL, and retrieved the number of paintings. It's useful to record that date, in case either of these things change. (Art UK IDs are mildly unstable).

It's also useful to have, because I'm thinking of adding one, maybe two more qualifier fields, and it's useful to know if items have changed more recently than that, in which case the old scrape may no longer be valid -- though that does depend on anyone updating the data also updating the retrieved date, which may or may not happen.

What was the problem you saw with this date? Jheald (talk) 13:44, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

@Jheald: I meant to remove the ID, not just the date it was retrieved. My edit summary referred to the dates of birth & death of the person represented by that ID, which do not match those in the Wikidata item. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:33, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Ah, that makes more sense.
The potential doublet was on the list that I sent to Art UK, and it was one of the seven or so that they didn't accept immediately, but didn't reject out of hand -- they've referred it to the relevant museums, in particular the Greenwich Heritage Centre that holds the picture of the ship on the river, to see whether there's any chance that the dates in the GHC's attribution may be questionable, and it may be the same guy.
No word back on that as yet though.
Perhaps leave the second Art UK link for the time being, but perhaps tag it something like sourcing circumstances (P1480) = Q28659643. Jheald (talk) 14:54, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

My comment in the list on Constraint_violations P2949

Saw that you moved my comment to the discussion list. My thought is just if someone check the list understand the status. I understand that the text gets deleted but feels unnecessary that someone else start working with the problems. Guess the Wiki way is discussion page but feels not everyone check it before starting fixing. Thanks for all your help - Salgo60 (talk) 10:19, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Official image

In an earlier iteration, I used the "publisher" property instead, and that may be an option too. Really, the exact solution is not so important to me, though, just the ability to create a useful query.--Pharos (talk) 15:08, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Sure; that's the sprit in which I read your comment, and made mine. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:44, 16 March 2017 (UTC)
It also occurs to me that, in at least a few cases, we are going to have an artwork item, that has a designated official image from more than one authority. For example, an item that covers multiple casts of a Rodin sculpture in different museums. Or for the Mérode Altarpiece itself, someone might consider the Google Art Project image as "official" for that particular campaign, though in this case it's just derived from an older Met image. So, while using subject has role (P2868)official image (Q28946213) for official artwork images, maybe we should also add a secondary qualifier under the image property statement, something like collection (P195)Metropolitan Museum of Art (Q160236).--Pharos (talk) 17:22, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Thank you!

Hi Andy,

Thank you for your message to let me try this feature here. It was a very interesting talk and I understand much more now about how information on the wiki platforms works. Fascinating stuff! Johanna667 (talk) 12:15, 17 March 2017 (UTC)


HI, I have a question since you are an admin of Wikispecies. Might as well ping @Koavf: as well. I was looking at items such as Q14847231 and Q7254948. In the instance of, would it be appropriate to add "beetle" Q22671 as well. Thoughts?

MechQuester (talk) 20:12, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

@MechQuester: I am actually pretty ignorant about insects but we have several entomologists at Wikispecies. —Justin (koavf)TCM 20:25, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
@MechQuester: "Add" in what context? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:35, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
I was thinking of adding beetle to instance of. For this, would it be fine if "Instance of" would be "takon" and "beetle" instead of just "taxon. MechQuester (talk) 21:33, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Actually, maybe I'll just add beetle to instance of. Could be good. MechQuester (talk) 21:34, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
@MechQuester: That's not necessary; the "parent taxon" hierarchy makes it available programmatically; for humans, there's the description. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:36, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
acknolwedged. I won't do it. MechQuester (talk) 21:37, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Help, property

Hi, Pigsonthewing. I'm asking this to you cause I see you a lot in property proposals so I think you'll have a clue on this.

Wrt buildings, monuments, structures... is there any property for storing data as the element is "under construction", "completed", "in ruins", "no more"? AFAIK this data is frequently stored (in a pretty awkward manner) with instance of (P31) -> ruins (Q109607), destroyed building or structure (Q19860854) with qualifiers start time (P580), end time (P582).

Example: Castle Mirapeix (Q3573709). Leaving aside the "dates" for P580 or P582 are not always known/sourceable (and that working with dates here is a pretty messy thing)... wouldn't be more practical dissociating the very essence of a thing and the (current or not) status of it? It'll ease the reuse of this data in wikipedias, for sure.

Before proposing a new property I'd like to know your stand on a hypothetical "status" property (I'm open to suggestions on a more accurate English naming) or something like that? Thanks for your time. Strakhov (talk) 13:07, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

@Strakhov: Where appropriate, you can use end time (P582) with 'unknown value'. Consider also using 'significant event' -> 'demolition' (or whatever). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:16, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


Hello there! Would you mind reviewing a few proposals that I have initiated and that are still waiting for their first voter after more than one week? Those are Wikidata:Property proposal/Track and Field Statistics female ID, Wikidata:Property proposal/Track and Field Statistics male ID, Wikidata:Property proposal/Diamond League ID, Wikidata:Property proposal/USATF ID and Wikidata:Property proposal/LoJ ID. This would make things faster whatever you decide. Thierry Caro (talk) 09:00, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

@Thierry Caro: Belatedly, done. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:14, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. Sometimes you are the only voter on proposals! So you are like the only hope that we have of them being processed fast enough! Thank you again. Thierry Caro (talk) 09:28, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
If you have time, don't hesitate to review these other ones: Wikidata:Property proposal/RealGM basket-ball player ID, Wikidata:Property proposal/ ID, Wikidata:Property proposal/ALPG ID, Wikidata:Property proposal/ ID, Wikidata:Property proposal/MLL ID and Wikidata:Property proposal/NLL ID. All are currently forgotten in proposal limbo. Thierry Caro (talk) 00:37, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
@Thierry Caro: All done. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:45, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Duplicate items

Solids and minerals

Hi Pigsonthewing!

Borrowing from Wikipedia w:Solid: "Solid is one of the four fundamental states of matter (the others being liquid, gas, and plasma). It is characterized by structural rigidity and resistance to changes of shape or volume. Unlike a liquid, a solid object does not flow to take on the shape of its container, nor does it expand to fill the entire volume available to it like a gas does. The atoms in a solid are tightly bound to each other, either in a regular geometric lattice (crystalline solids, which include metals and ordinary ice) or irregularly (an amorphous solid such as common window glass)." Just FYI: obsidian is a volcanic glass! It is a mineraloid, not a mineral! Please restore my minerals item: (Q26235505). Thank you in advance for your kind attention to this matter! --Marshallsumter (talk) 22:32, 5 May 2017 (UTC)


Before merge:

  • Q7946 - "mineral"; "naturally occurring non-biological solid" - linked to en:Mineral et al
  • Q26235505 - "minerals"; "naturally occurring usually inorganic substances that have a (more or less) definite chemical composition and a crystal structure" - linked to en:wikiversity:Minerals (which opens "Minerals are usually solid, inorganic substances of natural occurrence")

obsidian (Q53754) has no links to either item. Quite apart from the fact that we generally avoid plural labels and descriptions, I see no justification here to undo the merge, but do please feel free to clarify your concern, preferably without seemingly irrelevant quotes from Wikipedia. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:52, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

I added the Wikipedia quote to emphasize that not all naturally occurring, non-biological solids are minerals. Obsidian is apparently considered a solid but it is not a mineral! The beginning sentence from the resource contains usually and is not precise enough because the resource v:Minerals, a lecture, has a more precise description of minerals: "naturally occurring usually inorganic substances that have a (more or less) definite chemical composition and a crystal structure". I hope this helps! --Marshallsumter (talk) 00:08, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Strong interaction

Hi Pigsonthewing!

I created a separate Strong interaction because the one you redirected it to is based on quark theory, whereas the resource v:Charges/Interactions/Strong is not. The description I used is exactly appropriate for the strong interaction based on experiment not quark theory. So I would like my strong interaction back! --Marshallsumter (talk) 00:21, 6 May 2017 (UTC)


Hi Pigsonthewing!

As you probably noticed on the Discussion page on minerals, I tried to change the description of minerals to "the scientific study of minerals" but no agreement, so I created the page mineralogy to contain the more appropriate description. There are a lot of organic minerals. I would like either the description for mineralogy changed or my mineralogy restored. --Marshallsumter (talk) 00:35, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Hardly anyone watches pages like Talk:Q83353. Use Wikidata:Project chat; or a project like Wikidata:WikiProject Chemistry; or just make your edit and watch to see if you are reverted. Please do not fork items over minor disagreements on descriptions in one of 290+ languages. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 08:00, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Youtube users

Could you show how to convert Youtube user ID to channel ID? For example for item Declan Galbraith (Q311072). — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 17:28, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

@Ivan A. Krestinin: See, for example, Wikidata:Project chat/Archive/2016/11#YouTube channel ID (P2397); I have copied the guidance to the property documentation: Help:P2397. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:51, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Or alternatively, just move it to YouTube channel ID (P2397) and let my bot do the rest. My bot checks them twice a day and corrects them. Mbch331 (talk) 18:04, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. I just moved ~1000 website account on (P553) values to YouTube channel ID (P2397). I hope your bot will fix its. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 21:45, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

ORCID reconciliation service

SELECT DISTINCT ?researcher ?researcherLabel WHERE {
  ?researcher wdt:P31 wd:Q5.
  ?researcher wdt:P106/wdt:P279* wd:Q1650915 .
  FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?researcher wdt:P496 ?orcid }
  FILTER NOT EXISTS { ?researcher wdt:P570 ?date }
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en" }
Try it!

OpenRefine edit history:

Pintoch (talk) 08:31, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Full URLs vs external IDs

Hello, about old request. It is done for all properties that have both formatter URL (P1630) and format as a regular expression (P1793). Additional cases can be fixed using {{Autofix}}. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 10:25, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

@Ivan A. Krestinin: Fantastic work! Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:38, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Full URLs vs external IDs

Hello, about old request. It is done for all properties that have both formatter URL (P1630) and format as a regular expression (P1793). Additional cases can be fixed using {{Autofix}}. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 10:25, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

@Ivan A. Krestinin: Fantastic work! Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:38, 28 May 2017 (UTC)

Stop edit warring

Ok I'll be clear: you are the one who should verify each label you add. I don't have to clean up after you. Stop adding wrong labels because you don't seem to understand the concept of transliteration. Adding errors and persisting in adding errors when you have been warned is akin to vandalism. Don't add automatically labels in languages which don't share the same transliterations customs. Is it that difficult to understand that adding errors is wrong?! --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 11:23, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

You stop edit warring. Is it that difficult to understand that removing valid data is wrong? And stop making false allusions to vandalism. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:27, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
You can perfectly add all correct labels manually, with sources or at least a verification that you are adding the correct information. You persists in adding wrong data, I fail to see the difference with vandalism. I asked other admins on this issue (you should have been notified) Wikidata:Administrators' noticeboard. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 11:40, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
You persist in removing valid data. False accusations of vandalisms may themselves result in a block. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:45, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Old Norse names of Places in Great Britain and Greenland

Thank you for your kind assistance on my proposals for new properties. With property official language (P37) I can give multiple names for towns in Istria as Italian is an official language there. But York (Q42462) had the Old Norse (Q35505) name Jórvík, are you able to indicate what property I can use on York (Q42462). breg --Pmt (talk) 11:22, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

@Pmt: Try native label (P1705), like this. I found that the editing interface would not let me add a value for that using the language code for Old Norse, non, but QuickStatements did. The code for quick statements, in this case, was Q42462 [tab]P1705 [tab] non:"Jórvík", where " [tab] " is a single tab character. I also added "Jórvík" as an English alias, but sadly it is not yet possible to do so in Old Norse. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:40, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

Possible merge

Hello Andy, Do you agree that audio recording (Q30070318) could be merged with sound recording process (Q5057302)? Lymantria (talk) 09:16, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

@Lymantria: No, '302 is an activity, '318 is the result of that activity. I've edited '318 to make that clearer. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:40, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
Clear. Thanks. Lymantria (talk) 10:41, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Is this you?

Hi Andy. Are you User:James ville, or is that user's user page, ehm, mistaken? --YMS (talk) 20:08, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

@YMS: Thank you; that's nothing to do with me. Appropriate action requested. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:33, 9 June 2017 (UTC)
Jasper Deng blocked the account and deleted the user page. --YMS (talk) 08:30, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Property proposal

Good evening! A little bit impatient :) My proposal Norwegian List of Lights ID has been marked yellow and ready for upload. do you know when this will happen? Breg --Pmt (talk) 18:17, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

@Pmt: It can take a few days; more tend to be done at the weekend, so hopefully today or tomorrow. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:24, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Have a nice weekend! Breg --Pmt (talk) 18:29, 10 June 2017 (UTC)


I removed the statement "Andy" from the item of your person because "Andy" is in your case not a "given name", but a "nick name". This is a difference, and in given name (P735) I don't see any hint that allows nick names as statements. Steak (talk) 07:15, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

@Steak: I suggest you look at the example, given in the documentation of given name (P735), of Bill Clinton. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:16, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Susan La Flesche Picotte

i went ahead a merged Q30317195 with Q2009201. sorry about that, feel free to undo if you disagree. Slowking4 (talk) 23:58, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Blacklisted URLs

For "described at URL" do we have blacklisted sites? Nikkimaria removed a url here for one of many instances, without an explanation. I assume it is the same reason that she is removing Findagrave as the source for data, she finds the site unreliable. But Wikipedia rules do not extend here. Is there a list of blacklisted sites that must be removed? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 18:30, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

No, there is no such list. I'm glad to see you reverted the removal. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:38, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
I assumed the field is for websites that have not been given an identifier yet; or for non standardized links without a format, such as the link to a New York Times obituary. Eventually we could look through the field and identify websites that are widely used, but not yet given an identifier. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 19:25, 18 June 2017 (UTC)
Please peek at Wikidata:Requests for comment/Findagrave removed as a source for information. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 19:39, 18 June 2017 (UTC)


"we could look through the field and identify websites that are widely used, but not yet given an identifier" - Yes; here are the values for people:

#People with "described at URL" 
SELECT ?person ?personLabel ?URL 
  ?person wdt:P31 wd:Q5.
  ?person wdt:P973 ?URL.
      SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "en". }
Try it!

There's a lot of junk, sadly. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:07, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

You may be wrong and she may be correct. There is a blacklist here at Wikidata:Primary_sources_tool/URL_blacklist and Wikia is on it. What is the "primary sources tool"? Findagrave is not on it. You can respond directly at User talk:Nikkimaria. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 13:05, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

That is not a "list of sites blacklisted by Wikidata". to the best of my knowledge, no such discussion has ever taken place. Also, see Wikidata:Primary sources tool. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:13, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Sourcing dispute statements

I see that you added a few dispute statements to atheism (Q7066). Can you provide sources with quotes that you see as a sign that each of the listed sources disputes the idea that atheism is a religion? ChristianKl (talk) 15:50, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be any mechanism for this on the item; but you can find them online, as I did. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:57, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Info about Zotero

Hello Andy,

Thanks for adding these great news about Zotero in the Weekly Summary! I think it's a bit too long though, since we usually try to have a short sentence that may link to a more detailed content. Could you maybe add the paragraph on the Project chat, and then summarize it in the Weekly Summary with a link?

Thanks :) Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 13:08, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

@Lea Lacroix (WMDE): I can shorten it and link to something else, but the problem with linking to project chat is that sections are often archived while the newsletter is still current. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:33, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
I know, I got this problem quite often ^^ I can also wait for Monday, when I finish preparing the newsletter, then the section should not be archived too fast. Lea Lacroix (WMDE) (talk) 13:57, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
@Lea Lacroix (WMDE): I've linked to Wikidata:Zotero. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:03, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Use of Wikidata item of this property (P1629)

Hi Andy, you've reverted an addition I made to RePEc Short-ID (P2428), and have commented that the information should be in "issued by". My understanding is, that issued by (P2378) should be used for the organization which is responisble for a dataset and its identifiers. In contrast, Wikidata item of this property (P1629) is defined as inverse property (P1696) Wikidata property (P1687), so it is formally required (the new checkConstraints gadget made me aware of that), and its value is determined as the according dataset. I've tried to define the different identifiers related to Research Papers in Economics (Q206316) a bit more precisely. This is my first such action, so please let me know if I'm wrong somewhere. Jneubert (talk) 16:50, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

@pigsonthewing: Just a ping, asking for feedback ...
@Jneubert: Apologies for missing your first post, and for thinking that RePEc Author Service (Q32075787) is the issuing organisation. However, Q32075787 is also not an instance of an identifier. I suggest you create an item for the ID, equivalent to P2428, and use that. You can use ORCID iD (Q51044) as a model. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:52, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
@pigsonthewing: OK, I see - for ORCID, you have ORCID iD (Q51044) as the identifier and ORCID, Inc. (Q19861084) as the issuing organization. The "usage instructions" for Wikidata item of this property (P1629) say: "for external identifiers, the linked item can be an item about the identifier itself; alternatively the linked item can be the database or other source that defines the identifier". So I concluded that linking to an item about the database/dataset is a valid approach (as well as linking to an item about the identifier). The reason why I chose to model the dataset was that the different RePEc datasets (RePEc Author Service (Q32075787), Research Division of the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis (Q32111097), series, papers) have different websites and are issued by either RePEc (as an organization) itself, or, in the case of EDIRC, by the St. Louis FED (and have different sizes, different subject areas, etc., if somebody cares to add these). While the ORCID identifier clearly belongs to the (sole) ORCID dataset, is used broadly (and will be often the first identifier for a young researcher), the RePEc identifiers were up to now only used within RePEc and its derivates (IDEAS etc.), and are not so interesting in itself. Having the organization/database, the dataset, the identifier, plus the Wikidata property for the identifier as four distinct items would seem like overkill, so I'd really like to avoid creating a new item for the identifiers - which would, in my eyes, comply to the usage instructions. Jneubert (talk) 11:53, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Property proposals

It is always a pleasure discussing property proposals with use. Giving me the opinion of seeing a property from many sides. Lookng foreward for further proposals. Breg --Pmt (talk) 04:08, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Structured Data on Commons Newsletter, July 19, 2017

Welcome to the newsletter for Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons! You can update your subscription to the newsletter. Do inform others who you think will want to be involved in the project!

Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons?

The millions of files on Wikimedia Commons are described with a lot of information or (meta)data. With the project Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons, this data is structured more, and is made machine-readable. This will make it easier to view, search (also multilingually), edit, organize and re-use the files on Commons.

In early 2017, the Sloan Foundation funded this project (see documentation). Development takes place in 2017–2020. It involves staff from the Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia Deutschland (WMDE) and many volunteers. To achieve this, Wikibase support is added to Wikimedia Commons. Wikibase is the technology that is also used for Wikidata.

Recent developments: groundwork

  • A new and crucial technical step (federation) now makes it possible to reference data from one Wikibase website in another. Because of this, it will be possible to use Wikidata's items and properties to describe media files on Commons.
  • Another important piece of groundwork is under development: so-called Multi-Content Revisions. This feature allows structured data to be stored alongside wiki text, so that one wiki page can contain several types of content.

Team updates

  • Amanda Bittaker was hired as Program Manager for Structured Data on Wikimedia Commons. Amanda will take care of the overall management of the project.
  • Sandra Fauconnier (known as Spinster in her volunteer capacity) is the new Community Liaison. She will support the collaboration between the communities (Commons, Wikidata, GLAM) and the product development teams at the Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia Deutschland.
  • We have open positions for a UX designer and a Product Manager!

Talking with communities and allies

  • Long-term feedback from GLAMs. Besides the Wikimedia community, many external cultural and knowledge institutions (GLAMs - Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums) are interested in Structured Data on Commons and are willing to provide feedback on the long-term plans for the project. Alex Stinson, GLAM strategist at the Wikimedia Foundation, is currently in contact with Europeana, DPLA, the Smithsonian and the National Archives of the United States. Alex is also looking for other GLAM institutions who might be able to advise on the long term. If you know of an institution or partner that may be appropriate for consultation, do get in touch with Alex.
  • Jonathan Morgan, design researcher, is starting to work on two projects:

What comes next?

  • The Structured Data on Commons team meets in the week after Wikimania to lay the groundwork for the next steps. This includes new backend development and design work, for better and more clear integration of the structured data in pages on Wikimedia Commons.
  • The project's information pages on Wikimedia Commons will receive a long overdue update in the upcoming months. The team will also work on more and better communication channels. Feedback, wishes and tips are welcome at the project's general talk page.

Get involved

Many greetings from SandraF (WMF) (talk), Community Liaison for this project! 13:55, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

explain reversal needed

Hi Pigsonthe..

At Property:P4174, you effectively undid my edit. Can you explain why? --
--- Jura 09:55, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

72 h block

I blocked you account for reverting at Edward Murphy without engaging to any discussion. When the block expires, pls make sure you discuss things, because the next block will be longer.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:51, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

This is utterly ridiculous. I have given my reasons in edit summaries. Your action is also utterly one-sided. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:14, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
You were asked to explain and you have chosen not to. You should not be really surprised, given that this is not the first time you are featured at the administrator's noticeboard for similar behavior.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:20, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
"You were asked to explain" Where? And you'll also be aware that I have previously reported, more than once, that the editor whose allegations you appear to have taken at face value is harassing me; not least by recently vandalising the item about me. As for "featured at the administrator's noticeboard ": prior to your inappropriate action, my block log was clean. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:24, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
Well, and now it is not. When the block expires pls bring the harassment allegations to the same board.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:35, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
How odd, you accuse me of not explaining my edits, though I did so, yet ignore the question I just put to you. Here it is again: "You were asked to explain" Where? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:38, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
I've mentioned you on the administrators noticeboard, I even got a notification that the mention was send succesfully. It's also a bit weird to hear this from someone who refused to notify involved people while talking about them in the project chat. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 19:02, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
(i) on this page; (ii) in the edit summaries; (iii) at AN.--Ymblanter (talk) 19:48, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
There was no prior mention of Edward Murphy on this page, much less the request you claim; ii) there was no such request in edit summaries (though I reiterate, I did give my reason in my edit summaries); iii) there was no such request on the admin noticeboard (where I was discussed, but not addressed). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:54, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
Fine. We obviously have different opinions on your behavior in general and the appropriateness of your block in particular. When it expires, you will have a chance to discuss my behavior on AN and see what the broader community thinks about the issue. For the time being, I consider your behavior to be wikilawyering.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:06, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
But you would say that, wouldn't you, Ymblanter. An obviously punitive & excessive block in support of a fellow admin engaged in stalky & reverty behaviour following an AN discussion for which I see no alert here. Kangeroo justice. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:09, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
I am happy to see here users canvassed by Andy but please remember Wikidata is not Wikipedia and we have different policies. For the record, I strongly oppose the unblock.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:13, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
You're very free with your presumptions, Ymblanter. Watchlist much? "we have different policies". Indeed. I'd say arbitrary and capricious, but it wasn't really arbitrary, was it? --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:24, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
Do not you think I see that your last edit here was on August 1? And that your talk page says that you are mainly active on Wikipedia? As I said, guys, go to AN and discuss my actions. Bring all arguments there. The discussion has not even been closed.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:30, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
Yes. Difficult to imagine someone who has edited wikimedia for the last 15 years might have pages watchlisted, even if not actively editing for nearly a whole month. Your block sucks as much as your solipcism. I appeciate you do not wish for feedback here, but that seems to be part of the same problem. --Tagishsimon (talk) 20:45, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
We have AN for feedback, and this is the third time I have to repeat it. An unblock is just not going to happen via conversations at this page. I obviously knew when I blocked Andy that I will be getting loads of shit from his wiki-friends. It is unfortunate but will not lead to an unblock.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:50, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
Andy obviously needs a real break from Wikidata, and I had to revoke their talk page access. When they get unblocked, they are welcome to check (at AN) how far they have already tested the patience of the community.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:53, 27 August 2017 (UTC)
After reviewing AN comments and having a second thought, I restored the talk page access.--Ymblanter (talk) 05:30, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
And yet your comment on my block log doesn't mention the criticism of your action at AN. You should now undo your hasty, unwarranted, excessive and punitive block on my editing. As for "the community", that is in no way represented by the small number of vocal, and self-selected, individuals who inhabit AN. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:47, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
As I am now repeating it for the fifth time, you will have a chance to explore what the community thinks about your and mine actions at AN once your block expires. I obviously disagree with the notion that the block was hasty, unwarranted, excessive, and punitive. I believe it was overdue and well-deserved.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:15, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
I refer you to my comment, below, about the conflation of your personal opinions and your duties as an administrator. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:28, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
Sure, I hear your opinion, I just happen to disagree with it.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:30, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
If you are not happy with AN, you can go to the Project Chat and/or open a desysop request.--Ymblanter (talk) 11:17, 28 August 2017 (UTC)
You're entitled to hold your own opinions of me, of course, but as an admin they're not supposed to be the motivation for your actions. And it's not wikilawyering to point out when your claims - especially the claims you make to justify your admin actions - are clearly false. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:39, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Merge Help

Hi there, I got your message on my talk page that I should reach out here if I ever have questions. I was wondering if you could help me with a merge of two wikidata properties that have the same subject on different wikis? I tried activating the builtin merge tool in preferences and doing it myself but it seems since both have references to the NL wikipedia it's blocking the merge. The California Rail/Ridgway Rail/Rallus Obsoletus are all the same animal with different names, and it appears the article blocking the merge is that of a SUB-SPECIES on the NL wiki on wikidata: Rallus obsoletus. However the sub-species wikidata page is all information with the main species, like the links to wikispecies and commons. If I need to move information manually I can, but just wondering for future reference is there a way that you know of to do these merges in a cleaner/more effective way in case I run into them again? I hope I was able to explain this in a way that makes sense, let me know if any clarification is needed. Thanks for your help! Jeanjung212 (talk) 15:14, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

@Jeanjung212: As they have different taxon name property values, they should not be merged. However, it may be that some of the other properties, not least labels and aliases, and the NL-Wikipedia links, may need to be swapped between the items; or possibly a parent item created. I suggest you ask on Wikidata talk:WikiProject Taxonomy. BTW, instead of, for example, [[Q22003908|Rallus obsoletus]], you can just write {{Q|22003908}}; it renders as: Rallus obsoletus (Q22003908). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:32, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the assistance, this was all very helpful information for me! Jeanjung212 (talk) 15:49, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Faults on page

SELECT ?human ?humanLabel ?image ?dod ?pobLabel WHERE {
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }
  ?human wdt:P31 wd:Q5.
  ?human wdt:P39 wd:Q16707842.
  ?human wdt:P734 wd:Q1158446.
    ?human wdt:P18 ?image.
    ?human wdt:P570 ?dod.
    ?human wdt:P19 ?pob.
Try it!

No date of death for John Smith (Q332377)

SELECT ?human ?image ?dod ?pobLabel ?occupation ?occupationLabel WHERE {
  SERVICE wikibase:label { bd:serviceParam wikibase:language "[AUTO_LANGUAGE],en". }
  ?human wdt:P31 wd:Q5.
  ?human wdt:P39 wd:Q16707842.
  ?human wdt:P39 wd:Q28841847.
    ?human wdt:P18 ?image.
    ?human wdt:P570 ?dod.
    ?human wdt:P19 ?pob.
    ?human wdt:P106 ?occupation.
LIMIT 1000
Try it!

Two blank rows for Lord Charles Bentinck (Q128343) and William Bentinck, 4th Duke of Portland (Q128336)

--  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jezzaman42 (talk • contribs) at 15:29, 5 September 2017‎ (UTC).


Hi Andy

Thanks for the training today LizThomas (talk) 11:19, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello Andy

Can I buy you a beer? Bosquetmparluk (talk) 11:19, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello Andy

How are you? Reisferreira (talk) 11:19, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

What ho

Here's a thing. Benwoodhams (talk) 11:21, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


Hello 1cyr (talk) 11:19, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


How are you? Saffiyah1 (talk) 11:21, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello Andy

Parliament coffee is divine. Let me know if you would like a cup. Jenna.ramdenee (talk) 11:20, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Hello Andy

Hi Andy, I hope you're good. I'm great, thanks for asking. Cnevejones (talk) 11:20, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi Andy

From Jianhan JohnYau (talk) 11:20, 6 September 2017 (UTC)


...I am now very curious. What was all that ^ ? --Yair rand (talk) 21:39, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Teaching new editors how to leave talk page messages. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:40, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
Return to the user page of "Pigsonthewing/Archive 3".