Open main menu

Property talk:P1157

Documentation

US Congress Bio ID
identifier for a person on the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress
DescriptionAn identifier for the listing of the person on the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress - Biographical Directory of the United States Congress (Q1150348)
RepresentsUS Congress Bio identifier (Q20205343), United States senator (Q4416090)
Associated itemUnited States Congress (Q11268)
Data typeExternal identifier
Template parameteren:Template:Bioguide, en:Template:CongLinks
Domainperson (note: this should be moved to the property statements)
Allowed values[A-Z]00[01]\d{3}
ExampleTheodore Roosevelt (Q33866)R000429
Jefferson Monroe Levy (Q5676959)L000268
Sourcehttp://bioguide.congress.gov/biosearch/biosearch.asp
Formatter URLhttp://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=$1
Tracking: usageCategory:Pages using Wikidata property P1157 (Q55101155)
Related to country  United States of America (Q30) (See 359 others)
Lists
Proposal discussionProposal discussion
Current uses12,818
Search for values
  Single value: this property generally contains a single value. (Help)
"exceptions" is incompatible with "mandatory" parameter List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1157#Single value, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
  Distinct values: this property likely contains a value that is different from all other items. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1157#Unique value, hourly updated report, SPARQL (every item), SPARQL (by value), SPARQL (new)
  Format “[A-Z]00[01]\d{3}|: value must be formatted using this pattern (PCRE syntax). (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1157#Format, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
  Item “instance of (P31): human (Q5): Items with this property should also have “instance of (P31): human (Q5)”. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1157#Item P31, hourly updated report, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
  Item “sex or gender (P21): Items with this property should also have “sex or gender (P21)”. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1157#Item P21, hourly updated report, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
  Item “place of birth (P19): Items with this property should also have “place of birth (P19)”. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1157#Item P19, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
  Item “date of birth (P569): Items with this property should also have “date of birth (P569)”. (Help)
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1157#Item P569, hourly updated report, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
  Item “country of citizenship (P27): United States of America (Q30): Items with this property should also have “country of citizenship (P27): United States of America (Q30)”. (Help)
Exceptions are possible as rare values may exist.
List of this constraint violations: Database reports/Constraint violations/P1157#Item P27, search, SPARQL, SPARQL (new)
 

Please notify projects that use this property before big changes (renaming, deletion, merge with another property, etc.)

Allow or disallow empty values?Edit

Today, User:Jura1 insisted on allowing the empty string as identifier value for this property. I wonder about the reasons for this. In my view, the empty string should be disallowed as identifier value, because missing identifier values will not direct users to the information that the presence of this property implies. In my view, statements with this property but an empty-string value should be fixed (the correct value should be added) or should be removed, but should not be accepted as if they were OK. Thoughts/Reasons? --UV (talk) 14:51, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Do you plan using this property or is this just an empty debate? It seems you spent quite some time on this talk page, but contributed nil. --- Jura 14:54, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
User:Jura1, in your above reply, (a) I fail to see any argument that would advocate to allow the empty string as identifier value for this property, and (b) I fail to see what the points you have raised in your above reply have at all to do with the question of whether the empty string should be allowed as identifier value for this property.
Nevertheless, let me answer the first part of your counterquestion: Yes, I plan using this property on la.wikipedia, and I have already long ago modified la:Template:CongBio to use the value from wikidata in rendering la.wikipedia articles. --UV (talk) 21:17, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
In any case, it wont have any adverse effect on your edit on Q600393. Your edit will still pass the constraint check, be reassured. If you have any other issues with John Dingell, Jr. (Q600393), I will try to help you expand the item. --- Jura 21:29, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
The correct value to set when you don't know what the value is is "unknown" (a special value); when you know the statement does not have a value, "no value" (another special value). The use of an empty string is thus valueless in the context of Wikidata, because the only other option is "some value" in which case we should add the actual (or past) value. --Izno (talk) 03:17, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Agree, though I don't think you can actually set a string statement to an empty string. Now we just need to find the correct values for this special values in the regex. Any suggestions? --- Jura 04:18, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
agree with -Izno — for any unique ID property that can be attributed considering the concerned DB, either the value exists, either it does not exist, yet, which should be stated with "no value" + date of consultation as qualifier.
I can't even see when the "unknown value" could be used, since, even if you/I don't know the value, it either exists, or not… but cannot be unknown - these IDs are recent data, for which there is no "unknown", even less an empty string :/ --Hsarrazin (talk) 15:35, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Unknown might not be necessary in the use case of an ID but it's obviously necessary in the case of birthday (CalendarType) or a diminutive name (StringType), etc. --Izno (talk) 20:26, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Jura, I think regards the regex it's not necessary; consumers (should) know that there are special values that can be output in a query. This includes both our constraint checks as well as any other random external or internal consumer. Since our primary concern in this context is the constraint check and presumably the constraint bot, we should just ping the bot owner (memory says it's Ivan? I don't keep track) to make sure he's not considering no value/unknown value to be bad values. Or if he is, to separate them into a different part of the report. (This is a general comment regards the constraint reports and not specifically this property, though.) --Izno (talk) 20:26, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
I suppose this is regarding David Palmer (Q249898)? --Izno (talk) 20:29, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
It's mainly about Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Q8007). As you have taken it upon you to revert my regex edit would you make sure you fix it? --- Jura 20:33, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm happy to follow up with the bot owner, but regardless we shouldn't change the regex. --Izno (talk) 20:38, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Please keep us informed. --- Jura 20:39, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
Iz it good now? --- Jura 06:09, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Izno, would you summarize the result? --- Jura 06:53, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Bot op won't change the bot, and I and UV disagree with your change to the regex. If you think the value should be excepted (I don't), use the normal exceptions method. --Izno (talk) 14:39, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

@Izno, UV, Hsarrazin, Gymel, Ivan A. Krestinin‎:: Do we all agree that "no value" should be accepted in statements? Do we also agree that the definition of the identifier at Q20205343 shouldn't be changed? --- Jura 15:10, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Jura1 there must be some implicit assumptions for your question I cannot grasp, probably in the lines of assumed completeness of that resource. However [1] does not show many U.S. presidents, the dozend or so I checked had either been congressmen too or at least vice presidents (IIRC the VP is presiding congress and therefore can be considered a member). Anyway: If you want to enforce a constraint that any United States representative (Q13218630) and Q13217683 has a US Congress Bio ID (P1157) then perhaps "novalue" might be appropriate to keep those with no online biography out of that report. The "format" constraint then has to be adjusted accordingly (thus P1630 of the property and P1793 of the correcponding item would differ). Some hypothetic congressman without online biography (maybe he was struck by lightning when travelling to his first session) might be equipped with "novalue". The fictional congressman David Palmer (Q249898) could be supplied with "unknown value" (or simply turned into an exception for the constraint). I still don't see why Franklin Delano Roosevelt (Q8007) should carry that property, it doesn't apply to Gandhi and Stalin either. Do you confuse him with the U.S. Representative Franklin Delano Roosevelt Jr. (Q275876)? -- Gymel (talk) 16:23, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
In a similar vein see the official Biography at Deutscher Bundestag of the fictitious Jakob Maria Mierscheid (Q445461). -- Gymel (talk) 16:27, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
Well, I'm trying to figure out which points we all agree to. We can then build from there. It's a bit hard to do that as it's clear that some of the participants seem to edit only constraints without actually knowing how they work nor dealing with the resulting reports.
To respond to the point you raised, the issue is with Presidents and VP as they are mentioned as a selection, but likely only included when they had been member of congress. --- Jura 16:53, 24 June 2015 (UTC)
But I still don't see how this can be an issue: Allowing President of the United States (Q11696) in the constraint may be unnecessary broad (and therefore could be left out completely or substituted by Q11699 - usually one would wait and see), but this cannot be the motivation for providing "novalue" for some (methinks quite arbitrary) items? Where to begin and where to stop? IMHO there always should be some maintenance workflow involved to justify "unknown value" or "no value" and that could be discussed on the property talk page. We don't have general rules for utilizing the two special values, and probably never will have. -- Gymel (talk) 18:16, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Accept new "position held" options from Continental CongressEdit

John Hancock https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q272774 has an entry at http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=H000149 noting that he held the positions "President of the Continental Congress" and "Member of the Continental Congress" but the "position held" only accepts the current offices. I'm guessing that the other options from the Continental Congress should be added. Nealmcb (talk) 00:18, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Return to "P1157" page.