MediaWiki talk:Wikibase-SortedProperties/Archive 3

Scandinavian middle family name (P6978)

{{Editprotected}}

Hi, could someone please move Scandinavian middle family name (P6978) to just above first family name in Portuguese name (P9139)? Thanks. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 10:05, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done Mahir256 (talk) 22:35, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Because the section has been processed, I have marked out the template. --Gymnicus (talk) 20:38, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: --- Jura 16:50, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Start time and end time

{{Edit request}}

• P585 (point in time)
• P580 (start time)
• P582 (end time)

Television series generally include P580 and P582, but not P577 (publication date). The outcome is that these are currently hard to be found, see Q1077 as a sample.

Would it be possible to move the three properties above
from the "event" section just above "P577 (publication date)".
It would fix it for those. I hope it doesn't look odd on other items. --- Jura 09:23, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

But point in time / start time / end time aren't really appropriate for "Works of art" (the suggested section) - they are currently under "Events". I agree that they should probably be shown earlier, but I don't think that section is appropriate. Maybe the entire "Events" section should be moved earlier? --DannyS712 (talk) 11:34, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

• P580-P582 are perfectly valid for TV series. What leads you to conclude the opposite? --- Jura 10:45, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

  My point is that for works of art other than TV shows they aren't really valid - movies, paintings, etc. don't really have a start and end time --DannyS712 (talk) 14:22, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

  • The headings on this page don't have much of an impact. The question is more if on items where they can also be used, this has a negative impact. (not that it's ever going to be perfect). Sometimes it happens that contributors use properties not meant for items on people and these end up above most relevant ones. --- Jura 16:42, 4 September 2021 (UTC)

• Is there are any other aspect that needs addressing? --- Jura 16:45, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

I have removed this section from the archive since it does not seem to be resolved. --Ameisenigel (talk) 13:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 20:00, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 22:02, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

is an individual of taxon (P10241)

{{Edit request}}

Please add this after P279 at MediaWiki:Wikibase-SortedProperties#Classification. Sample use: Q20859645. --- Jura 10:44, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

@MisterSynergy would you have a moment to set this? In the meantime, the property is used 10000 times. --- Jura 07:49, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

I try to stay away from this page since I am not convinced that it is a good approach to solve the underlying problem. Maybe someone with more insight can step in… —MisterSynergy (talk) 08:33, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Np. I don't think it's ideal either, but it's a pragmatic approach (though I don't quite get the new sorting for external ids). --- Jura 08:43, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Would be nice to get some movement on this – individual of taxon (P10241) is very clearly an identifying statement (it's a subproperty of P31), and it's bizarre to have it show up as the last statement on an item. Swpb (talk) 14:42, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

I have removed this section from the archive since it does not seem to be resolved. --Ameisenigel (talk) 13:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 20:57, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 22:03, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

International Tables for Crystallography space group number (P9733)

{{Edit request}} Move:

• P9733 (International Tables for Crystallography space group number)

After:

• P690 (space group)

Thanks, Wostr (talk) 00:33, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

I have removed this section from the archive since it does not seem to be resolved. --Ameisenigel (talk) 13:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 14:57, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 22:03, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

A few properties to be moved

{{Edit request}} Please, move:

1. P10718 (CXSMILES)

   after: P8533 (SMARTS notation)

2. P10685 (ionic radius)
3. P10795 (coordination number)
4. P10764 (charge number)

   after: P1108 (electronegativity)

5. P579 (IMA status and/or rank)
6. P10113 (IMA Mineral Symbol)

   after: P537 (twinning)

7. P7048 (PBS Drug Code)

   after: P3550 (Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods ID)

8. P10245 (MedlinePlus drug identifier)
9. P10246 (MedlinePlus supplement identifier)

   after: P604 (MedlinePlus ID)

10. P10074 (Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases chemical ID)

    after: P7746 (Natural Product Atlas ID)

Wostr (talk) 12:15, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 21:58, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 22:03, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Positioning of P5972

I don't think it makes sense to position translation (P5972) at the top of sense statements, since basically all other statements are more relevant for that language than translations are. It would be better to place it at the bottom. Jon Harald Søby (talk) 21:30, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

I concur with this. عُثمان (talk) 21:41, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

I have moved it below 'synonym' and 'antonym' (and all three below the other properties with sense datatype). Mahir256 (talk) 21:44, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 22:04, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Move Inequality-adjusted Human Development Index (P11593) to just below Human Development Index (P1081)

{{Edit request}} Inequality-adjusted Human Development Index (P11593) is created and populated. It should be just below Human Development Index (P1081) instead of at the bottom of the page. Midleading (talk) 04:15, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

Support. GeoGQL (talk) 15:15, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done. --Epìdosis 19:54, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. GeoGQL (talk) 21:00, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

OpenStreetMap IDs

Please sort in that order:

1. OpenStreetMap relation ID (P402)
2. OpenStreetMap way ID (P10689) - renamed today
3. OpenStreetMap node ID (P11693) - created today

@GZWDer: maybe you can do? Thanks for having created the property today and renamed the other! GeoGQL (talk) 17:47, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Request withdrawn for now.

@Ameisenigel: thank you for [1]. This is sufficient as they are now shown next to each other, the exact order is less important as often only one or two of the three properties will be shown. It would be better to have it differently, but then it would reqquire an extra section in the MediaWiki sort page. Maybe not worth it. GeoGQL (talk) 15:25, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. GeoGQL (talk) 20:16, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Move Personal details after People (2)

Current order is

1. 3.2 Pronunciation
2. 4 People (2)
3. 5 Bodies of water
4. 6 Biology
5. 7 Non-person entities
6. 7.1 Economy
7. 7.2 Tourism
8. 8 Personal details

Move "Personal details" up after "People (2)", so the human related properties are closer to each other. GeoGQL (talk) 17:02, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done. --Epìdosis 19:46, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. GeoGQL (talk) 20:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

VIAF-related IDs - sort alphabetically and use numbered/HTML ordered list

{{Edit request}} Currently the ordering in the section "VIAF-related IDs" has an unstated sorting order and despite an amount of entries of more than 100 the entries are not numbered.

The section "35.7 Other IDs with type "external-id" - alphabetical order" gives a precedent for numbering and for "alphabetical order".

"WorldCat Identities ID" isn't listed at https://viaf.org/ , therefor, if it should be kept in that section, move it after VIAF ID and ISNI, then these three have a special position, otherwise WorldCat could in case some source is alphabetically higher be sorted among the others, or kept at the end but then with an untransparent ordering. Or a new subsection could be created just for WorldCat to explain the position at the end.

=== VIAF-related IDs ===
# P214 (VIAF ID)
# P213 (ISNI)
# P7859 (WorldCat Identities ID)
==== Other VIAF sources - alphabetical order ====
# P3280 (BAnQ author ID)
# P950 (Biblioteca Nacional de España ID)
# P268 (Bibliothèque nationale de France ID)
# P3788 (BNMM authority ID)
# P7058 (BNRM ID)
# P1670 (Canadiana Authorities ID (former scheme))
# P8179 (Canadiana Name Authority ID)
# P9984 (CANTIC ID)
# P271 (CiNii Books author ID)
# P1280 (CONOR.SI ID)
# P3846 (DBC author ID)
# P1309 (EGAXA ID)
# P6394 (ELNET ID)
# P2163 (FAST ID)
# P7024 (Flemish Public Libraries ID)
# P227 (GND ID)
## P7902 (Deutsche Biographie (GND) ID)
## P1710 (Sächsische Biografie (GND) ID)
# P269 (IdRef ID)
# P7026 (Lebanese National Library ID)
# P409 (Libraries Australia ID)
# P244 (Library of Congress authority ID)
# P5587 (Libris-URI)
# P4619 (National Library of Brazil ID)
# P7369 (National Library of Chile ID)
# P3348 (National Library of Greece ID)
# P7039 (National Library of Iceland ID)
# P10227 (National Library of Ireland ID)
# P8189 (National Library of Israel J9U ID)
# P5034 (National Library of Korea ID)
# P1368 (National Library of Latvia ID)
# P7699 (National Library of Lithuania ID)
# P7028 (National Library of Luxembourg ID)
# P1006 (Nationale Thesaurus voor Auteurs ID)
# P1048 (NCL ID)
# P349 (NDL Authority ID)
# P691 (NKCR AUT ID)
# P1015 (NORAF ID)
# P3988 (National Library Board Singapore ID)
# P7029 (National Library of Russia ID)
# P1375 (NSK ID)
# P951 (NSZL (VIAF) ID)
# P3133 (NSZL name authority ID)
# P1207 (NUKAT ID)
# P7041 (Perseus author ID)
# P7293 (PLWABN ID)
# P1005 (Portuguese National Library author ID)
# P3065 (RERO ID (obsolete))
# P9171 (RILM ID)
# P5504 (RISM ID)
# P396 (SBN author ID)
# P10397 (SBN place ID)
# P10396 (SBN work ID)
# P906 (SELIBR ID)
# P7700 (Slovak National Library ID (VIAF))
# P6934 (Syriac Biographical Dictionary ID)
# P10021 (UAE University Libraries ID)
# P245 (Union List of Artist Names ID)
# P8034 (Vatican Library VcBA ID)

GeoGQL (talk) 15:08, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

@Andrew Gray: Epidosis pinged you in the section above, and since on your user page it says "a librarian from the UK", you might have an opinion on this one. GeoGQL (talk) 16:42, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done the current order is based on the abbreviation used by VIAF for VIAF members and contributors, on the basis of the 2020 RfC Wikidata:Requests for comment/Sort identifiers; the order may not be immediately comprehensible due to the fact that some of the VIAF abbreviations (which were originally made explicit in the list) differ from the names adopted in Wikidata. Changing the ordering of VIAF members would thus require, symmetrically, another RfC. --Epìdosis 19:52, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

{{Edit request}} @Epìdosis: thank you for the pointer to Wikidata:Requests for comment/Sort identifiers. Where on the page does it say that sorting shall be done by VIAF abbreviation?

Independent from that, here is a variant request, still including the proposal to number the entries and indent the two sub-GND entries: Make the current situation visible be adding a section header "VIAF sources ordered by VIAF abbreviation".

=== VIAF-related IDs ===
* P214 (VIAF ID)
* P213 (ISNI)
* P7859 (WorldCat Identities ID)
==== VIAF sources ordered by VIAF abbreviation ====
# P3788 (BNMM authority ID)
# P8034 (Vatican Library VcBA ID)
# P3280 (BAnQ author ID)
# P1015 (NORAF ID)
# P4619 (National Library of Brazil ID)
# P9984 (CANTIC ID)
# P7369 (National Library of Chile ID)
# P950 (Biblioteca Nacional de España ID)
# P268 (Bibliothèque nationale de France ID)
# P7028 (National Library of Luxembourg ID)
# P8179 (Canadiana Name Authority ID)
# P1670 (Canadiana Authorities ID (former scheme))
# P1048 (NCL ID)
# P3846 (DBC author ID)
# P5504 (RISM ID)
# P227 (GND ID)
## P7902 (Deutsche Biographie (GND) ID)
## P1710 (Sächsische Biografie (GND) ID)
# P1309 (EGAXA ID)
# P6394 (ELNET ID)
# P2163 (FAST ID)
# P3348 (National Library of Greece ID)
# P396 (SBN author ID)
# P10396 (SBN work ID)
# P10397 (SBN place ID)
# P8189 (National Library of Israel J9U ID)
# P245 (Union List of Artist Names ID)
# P5034 (National Library of Korea ID)
# P244 (Library of Congress authority ID)
# P7699 (National Library of Lithuania ID)
# P1368 (National Library of Latvia ID)
# P7026 (Lebanese National Library ID)
# P10227 (National Library of Ireland ID)
# P7058 (BNRM ID)
# P349 (NDL Authority ID)
# P271 (CiNii Books author ID)
# P691 (NKCR AUT ID)
# P409 (Libraries Australia ID)
# P3988 (National Library Board Singapore ID)
# P7029 (National Library of Russia ID)
# P1375 (NSK ID)
# P951 (NSZL (VIAF) ID)
# P3133 (NSZL name authority ID)
# P1006 (Nationale Thesaurus voor Auteurs ID)
# P1207 (NUKAT ID)
# P9171 (RILM ID)
# P7041 (Perseus author ID)
# P7293 (PLWABN ID)
# P1005 (Portuguese National Library author ID)
# P3065 (RERO ID (obsolete))
# P5587 (Libris-URI)
# P906 (SELIBR ID)
# P1280 (CONOR.SI ID)
# P7700 (Slovak National Library ID (VIAF))
# P6934 (Syriac Biographical Dictionary ID)
# P269 (IdRef ID)
# P10021 (UAE University Libraries ID)
# P7039 (National Library of Iceland ID)
# P7024 (Flemish Public Libraries ID)

GeoGQL (talk) 20:57, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Partially done (for the use of # and the subsection). Indentation (** or ##) is never used in this Mediawiki page, so I prefer not to introduce it firstly. For the ordering, I quote from the RfC: "All VIAF members, ordered according to their VIAF code". The ordering of WorldCat Identities ID (superseded) (P7859) (whose deletion is pending as of now) is problematic: it is theoretically a VIAF member (although not listed in https://viaf.org/, it appears in the justlinks format of the clusters with the code "Identities"); I moved it at the end of the IDs for two reasons: 1) it is not a proper VIAF member (because it is not listed in VIAF main page) 2) since it copies either VIAF or LCNAF, it is a good marker, for the reader, of the end of the VIAF section. I tend to think the present position of P7859 is a good compromise for the above reasons, and I hope it could be deleted soon; anyway, if there is consensus for changing its positioning, it could be changed. --Epìdosis 06:52, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: thank you. Please move Property:P9964, English label now "Kalliope-Verbund (GND) ID", upward to subgroup GND. GeoGQL (talk) 15:37, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Sure,  Done --Epìdosis 16:03, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. GeoGQL (talk) 16:46, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

IDs with datatype "external-id" - convert sublists to numbered lists

@Epìdosis: could you convert the sections "Chemistry IDs" and "Chemistry-related IDs" to numbered lists, they are quite long. Then after VIAF only "Library classification IDs" and "Chess player IDs" are not numbered, maybe convert these too. Then inside the external-id section and outside "ISO IDs" only P214 (VIAF ID) and P213 (ISNI) are not numbered. Maybe number these too, even if very short. One could also decide to number all inside "external-id" to have a very simple rule for that section. GeoGQL (talk) 15:45, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done # for all IDs. --Epìdosis 16:06, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. GeoGQL (talk) 16:33, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Move external-id IDs to section external-id

@Epìdosis: four properties 2022-09-26 "Changed data type from string to external-id" [2]

1. 09:14 P502 HURDAT identifier - in section IDs with datatype "string"
2. 09:14 P627 IUCN taxon ID - in section IDs with datatype "string"
3. 09:15 P2263 ISOCAT id - in section IDs with datatype "string", is an ISO identifier
4. 09:16 P1402 Foundational Model of Anatomy ID - in section Medicine

GeoGQL (talk) 00:10, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Epìdosis 08:17, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. GeoGQL (talk) 11:53, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Positioning of the property P10449

{{Edit request}}

The property trained by (P10449) should be better positioned. This property is currently sorted into the section Other properties with datatype "item" and is in last place there. This place is unfavorable from my point of view. I would make two suggestions for positioning the property:

1. The first possibility is to sort the property trained by (P10449) into the section Non-person entities and sort it there exactly under the property head coach (P286).
2. The second option is to sort the property trained by (P10449) into the Personal details section and sort it there under the property student of (P1066).

I would be happy if one of the positionings could be done. --Gymnicus (talk) 08:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

According to the constraints section it is restricted to humans. So, support to move it to Personal details. GeoGQL (talk) 16:28, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 17:00, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 17:00, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Move some other strings to IDs with type string

@Epìdosis: these seem to be IDs, probably should be converted to external-id, but at least move them:

1. P5878 (Taxonomic Literature 2 number)
2. P6280 (Berlin protected area ID)
3. P10464 (KLADR ID)
4. P10502 (State Heraldic Register of the Russian Federation ID)

Maybe number the items in section IDs with datatype "string". There are already 77. GeoGQL (talk) 16:33, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Epìdosis 21:43, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Confirmed. Numbering not done.

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. GeoGQL (talk) 15:31, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Move IDs with type string to IDs with type external-id

@Epìdosis: how can that be done? GeoGQL (talk) 21:38, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

First you need to write in the talk page of each property asking for consensus for the change of datatype from "string" to "external-id". If, after e.g. two weeks, there is consensus (or at least no objection has been posed), you can ask for the change of datatype through WD:RATP. --Epìdosis 21:44, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata:Project chat#Change datatype to external-id GeoGQL (talk) 17:39, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Archived at Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2023/04#Change datatype to external-id. GeoGQL (talk) 15:26, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. GeoGQL (talk) 15:26, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Amarkosh ID

{{Edit request}}

1. P10955 (Amarkosh ID) (was URL) has been deleted - Please delete from section 'Other properties with datatype "url"'
2. P11737 (Amarkosh ID) (as ID) has been created - Please add to section 'Other IDs with type "external-id" - alphabetical order' before 'P5143 (amateur radio callsign)'

User:MSGJ, thanks for deletion and creation - can you also edit MediaWiki:Wikibase-SortedProperties? GeoGQL (talk) 14:52, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 15:02, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. GeoGQL (talk) 15:22, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Remove P8671 (Deutsche Bahn station code) from section Other properties with datatype "string"

{{Edit request}}

2021-04-15 'Changed data type from string to external-id' [3] GeoGQL (talk) 12:03, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

PS: And either afterwards run User:DannyS712/SortedPropertiesUpdater.js or add it manually so that it will sort correctly within section 'Other IDs with type "external-id" - alphabetical order' GeoGQL (talk) 15:19, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@MSGJ: could you (re)move this one too? Easiest, just delete and run the updater, then all the recently created ones are on the page and Deutsche Bahn station code will be in the correct place. GeoGQL (talk) 15:25, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

@DannyS712: User:DannyS712/SortedPropertiesUpdater.js doesn't take care of misplaced properties of datatype external identifier. GeoGQL (talk) 14:33, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

@GeoGQL thats because the script only adds new properties - it doesn't worry about existing ones (otherwise the code would need to be a lot more complicated to check the types of all the existing properties) - but you're write that removing the property and then re-running the script should put it into the correct place. I removed the property and re-ran the script DannyS712 (talk) 18:28, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

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transport network (P16)

{{Edit request}} Please move up transport network (P16) just under operator (P137) for instance (or better just under part of (P361) if anyone don't mind it Bouzinac ^{💬●✒️●💛} 17:29, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Support the move to just under part of (P361), since it is a subproperty of P361. GeoGQL (talk) 16:33, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 19:19, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 19:19, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Positioning of the property P3871

The property tributary orientation (P3871) should be positioned just after mouth of the watercourse (P403). Yanik ^B 15:17, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 18:53, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

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has use (P366)

{{Edit request}}

Please add has use (P366) as a classification property. Swpb (talk) 14:52, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 09:40, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 09:40, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Changed data type from string to external-id 2023-05-12

{{Edit request}} https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Maintenance_script&target=Maintenance+script&offset=20230512154129&limit=8

1. 2019-10-15 Property talk:P1461#Change datatype to external-id
2. 2022-09-07 Property talk:P1815#Change datatype to external-id
3. 2022-09-07 Property talk:P2410#Change datatype to external-id
4. 2023-04-01 Property talk:P5878#Change datatype to external-id
5. 2023-04-01 Property talk:P5910#Change datatype to external-id
6. 2023-04-01 Property talk:P6280#Change datatype to external-id
7. 2023-04-01 Property talk:P10502#Change datatype to external-id
8. 2023-04-01 Property talk:P10464#Change datatype to external-id

@DannyS712: can you remove these and re-run User:DannyS712/SortedPropertiesUpdater.js? GeoGQL (talk) 16:10, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 09:54, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 09:54, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

replaces (P1365)

{{Edit request}} Please move replaces (P1365) and replaced by (P1366), structure replaces (P1398) and structure replaced by (P167) close to dissolved, abolished or demolished date (P576) and inception (P571) Bouzinac ^{💬●✒️●💛} 09:08, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Seconded. Also, separated from (P807) is part of that same theme and could be closer to the group. --Arctic.gnome (talk) 19:06, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

Please don't let this one be archived before someone with authority to edit this page sees it and makes a decision. Arctic.gnome (talk) 20:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

@Bouzinac: Could you explain it more detailed? What means "close to"? --Ameisenigel (talk) 21:04, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi, "close" as "near to", "not far from" to help readability of the item Bouzinac ^{💬●✒️●💛} 21:09, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

"close to dissolved, abolished or demolished date (P576) and inception (P571)"

1. P576 is in section 18 Constructions at position 9
2. P571 is in section 1 Classification at position 17

It doesn't look possible to fulfill the request without duplicating the item. GeoGQL (talk) 21:59, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

@GeoGQL: I think dissolved, abolished or demolished date (P576) should be moved to section 1 Classification beside inception (P571). The examples on P576 aren't just about buildings; it includes organizations, nation-states, and periodical publications. Similarly, replaces (P1365) and replaced by (P1366) are under section 9 Works of art, but their broad usage includes nation-states and office-holders, so those could be moved to section 1. --Arctic.gnome (talk) 21:26, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

"inception" seems misplaced inside Classification, e.g. date of birth is further down, after names and titles. How about two new sections "start dates and events" and "end dates and events"? GeoGQL (talk) 02:26, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Those two new sections would fix my concerns. I'd also add "separated from" and "merged into" to those groups. I assume the new sections would go near the top, because they have diverse useage (similar to the "names" section). Arctic.gnome (talk) 14:57, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

See below "Create new sections dates and events". GeoGQL (talk) 16:37, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done It seems like we will create a new section instead, as discussed below. --Ameisenigel (talk) 11:47, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

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Properties with an "is a" relationship should be after P279

{{Edit request}}

Please move the following properties after subclass of (P279):

• is a number of (P11279)
• is a list of (P360)
• union of (P2737)
• disjoint union of (P2738)

--Push-f (talk) 13:59, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Why? P360 is a subproperty of "has part(s) of the class" which is in "Classification (2)" not of subclass of. GeoGQL (talk) 17:26, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

@Push-f: Do you like to answer this question? --Ameisenigel (talk) 09:42, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done No response --Ameisenigel (talk) 21:52, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

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Apply alphabetical order within subsections of Other properties by datatype

{{Edit request}} Currently items in the subsections are mostly sorted by P-number. Currently in section 'Other properties with datatype "item"' they are

1. from the first item until P3815 (volcano observatory) mostly sorted by English label, containing some exceptions, e.g. P707 (satellite bus) [sorted in r-range], P2578 (is the study of) [sorted in s-range], P1302 (primary destinations) [sorted in t-range]
2. then sorted by an undefined method
3. from P8030 to P8274 sorted by P-number
4. from P4292 to current last element P11633 sorted by P-number

GeoGQL (talk) 16:02, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

@DannyS712: User:DannyS712/SortedPropertiesUpdater.js doesn't enforce alphabetical sorting by English label in the by-datatype-sections. GeoGQL (talk) 14:36, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

@GeoGQL thats because I'm just adding new properties at the bottom of each section - when I wrote the script the properties were not sorted by alphabetical order, and only external ids has a section heading saying that they are sorted - given how many properties are in these sections (specifically data-type item) it would likely be controversial to just sort them all alphabetically since the sort order has some significance - if there is consensus that these should be sorted I can update the script but without such a discussion I'm not going to do it unilaterally DannyS712 (talk) 18:23, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

The first bullet point above indicates otherwise. Only subsequent items have been added in order by P-number, but there was voting - even RFC - that preferred alphabetical sorting above P-number-sorting for the external identifiers, the reasoning can be applied here. @Arctic.gnome: would you support alphabetical sorting in section 'Other properties with datatype "item"'? GeoGQL (talk) 02:41, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Generally, I'd say to go with what the RFC said and make them alphabetical. But some properties were clearly created as a pair and should be kept together, such as opening time (P8626) and closing time (P8627), or preceding halt on service (P10808) and following halt on service (P10809). I wouldn't sort them alphabetically until someone has identified those pairs. --Arctic.gnome (talk) 15:11, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

@Arctic.gnome: you have identified them, so that condition is fulfilled. Can you enact the change? GeoGQL (talk) 16:03, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't have permission to edit this page. Arctic.gnome (talk) 17:45, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Arctic.gnome: see also below: "Move misplaced qualifiers to section qualifier and source only" - the four you mentioned are all qualifiers only. GeoGQL (talk) 16:27, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

It's not actually possible to sort properties alphabetically, we can only order them so that they appear to be alphabetical in one language. External identifiers are usually named after a website and don't differ much between languages, but that's not the case for other datatypes, therefore it doesn't make sense to apply the same reasoning. - Nikki (talk) 03:37, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Reason: reduce the impression of chaos created by sorting by two methods applied to three packages of properties and by an unidentified algorithm or no sorting applied to a fourth package. GeoGQL (talk) 03:03, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done There does not seem to be any consensus to do this, especially given how many properties would be affected (about half of the properties which aren't external identifiers). - Nikki (talk) 03:37, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 21:54, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

Please move P2610 (thickness) to "Dimensions" section from "Other properties with datatype 'quantity'"

{{Edit request}} Swpb (talk) 14:45, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done - Nikki (talk) 03:42, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

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Unterschrift (P109)

I added quite a few signatures today. These are too far down the side for me and seem a bit lost. From my point of view, these should be arranged directly below the picture, as they are also personal qualifiers. With the request for a check in this regard, I remain with best regards A. Wagner (talk) 19:20, 6 August 2022 (UTC)

 Done below images and video --Ameisenigel (talk) 09:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

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Please move P2120 (radius), P2386 (diameter), and P2547 (perimeter) to "Dimensions" section from "Hardware, engineering"

{{Edit request}}

These are fairly generic dimension properties that are used outside an engineering context, and they should appear alongside other such properties. Thanks! Swpb (talk) 18:10, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 09:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 09:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Please remove P129 (physically interacts with) from "Medicine"

{{Edit request}}

The scope of this property has included non-medical/biological contexts since 2017. Thanks! Swpb (talk) 18:24, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

• But why it has to be moved from this section and where to? It does not necessarily cause it to appear in the wrong order in other scopes. If so, where would this property be moved to? Wostr (talk) 19:45, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
  • Simply move it back to 'Other properties with datatype "item"' – it is not specific to medicine and does not belong among medicine-related properties. Swpb (talk) 14:50, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
    • 'Wikibase-SortedProperties' page is not intended to sort properties into sections just on this page, but to sort them in items. Moving this property from 'Medicine' nearly to the end of this page would move it also in items after many other properties, so this change does not make any sense. Right know it is close to other related properties, if you want to move it somewhere, find a place that will be better, not worse. In other words, the most important thing is how the properties are sorted in items, not what section on that page the property is in. For properties that are used in multiple fields, find a location that is best for at least most of those fields, regardless of what the section name is. Wostr (talk) 19:38, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
      • I understand how this page works, and this property should not be placed with medical properties, to which it is not related, on items. The "other properties" section isn't "worse", it's the catch-all for properties with no appropriate section. If you must put it in another section, "Science" would be reasonably appropriate. Do you even have the ability to edit this page though? Swpb (talk) 13:57, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
        • I can't edit this page, but right know I oppose this edit, as I don't see any reason behind it, other than the wrong section. I see that in medicine-related items this property is sorted correctly. Changing the section will cause it to be displayed in a different order, if it is moved to 'other properties', it will be sorted in the wrong way in those items. So if you want to move it somewhere else, find a place where it will sort well both in medicine and in other fields. Wostr (talk) 19:17, 6 August 2023 (UTC) PS For 'science' I think it could be moved somewhere under 'P2414 (substrate of)' or near this kind of properties, but I don't know how it would affect other fields. Wostr (talk) 19:21, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done No consensus --Ameisenigel (talk) 09:25, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

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Chemistry-related IDs to move

{{Edit request}} Please, reorder the following properties:

• P11089 (UniChem compound ID) after P2877 (SureChEMBL ID)
• P11096 (LINCS small molecule ID) after P3519 (Pfam ID)
• P11160 (Cannabis Database ID) after P8354 (BitterDB compound ID)
• P11199 (Probes And Drugs ID) and P11198 (DrugCentral ID) after P7048 (PBS Drug Code)
• P11375 (CSD Refcode) after P6852 (CCDC Number)

Thank you, Wostr (talk) 19:41, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

And also:

• P11931 (CAMEO Chemicals ID) after P5220 (ICSC ID)

Wostr (talk) 19:23, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

And also:

• P9977 (isotopically modified form of) after P4770 (hydrated form of)
• P11813 (solubility product constant) after P2177 (solubility)

Wostr (talk) 12:27, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

And also:

• P11949 (PesticideInfo chemical ID) after P8061 (AGROVOC ID)

Wostr (talk) 10:02, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 09:19, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 09:19, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Please move facet of (P1269) from "Classification (2)" to "Classification"

{{Edit request}} This is a key high-level classification property that should appear near the top of items. Thanks. Swpb (talk) 14:54, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 09:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. Ameisenigel (talk) 09:24, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Use ordered/numbered list in section IDs with datatype string as done in section IDs with datatype external-id

(split out from "Move some other strings to IDs with type string") {{Edit request}}

@Epìdosis: can you number them, now 81. GeoGQL (talk) 23:38, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done --DannyS712 (talk) 23:19, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. DannyS712 (talk) 23:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Rename Images to Images (2) and create Images (1)

{{Edit request}}

1. Rename Images to Images (2)
2. After Classification create Images (1)

into the latter move

* P154 (logo image)
* P3383 (film poster)
* P117 (chemical structure)
* P18 (image)
* P8224 (molecular model or crystal lattice model)
* P7420 (image with frame)
* P5775 (image of interior)
* P10 (video)

GeoGQL (talk) 17:56, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Reason: reduce the impression of random placement created by having the media properties in between item properties and make the "Images" from section Classification easier findable by giving them a heading like for those in "Images" /Images (2). GeoGQL (talk) 02:58, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done --DannyS712 (talk) 23:24, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. DannyS712 (talk) 23:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Move three located-in-properties to the others in Non-person entities

{{Edit request}} Move after P3842 (located in the present-day administrative territorial entity)

• P421 (located in time zone)
• P3018 (located in protected area)
• P8138 (located in the statistical territorial entity)

GeoGQL (talk) 19:42, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Also move

• P669 (located on street)

there, at the end of the location properties. GeoGQL (talk) 00:01, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

 Done --DannyS712 (talk) 23:28, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. DannyS712 (talk) 23:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Move P348 (software version identifier) down to section IDs with datatype string

{{Edit request}} IDs of things are shown further down in the two specific setions, no reason given why software version ID would be treated differently. As pointed out by user:Midleading above, on some items, e.g. PHP (Q59) they exist in large quantities making other properties harder to access. GeoGQL (talk) 15:44, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done Unlike other IDs, the software version identifier says that there exists a version of a software, not that the item is that identified value. I.e. the use is fundamentally different - "xxx is an ID of yyy" vs "xxx is the ID of a version of yyy". Without support from others I don't agree that the change should be made --DannyS712 (talk) 23:30, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. DannyS712 (talk) 23:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Move misplaced qualifiers to section qualifier and source only

{{Edit request}}

1. opening time (P8626)
2. closing time (P8627)
3. preceding halt on service (P10808)
4. following halt on service (P10809)

are qualifiers but currently misplaced in 'Other properties with datatype "item"'. Move them to the appropriate section. @DannyS712: could you do that? GeoGQL (talk) 16:10, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Other misplaced qualifiers to be moved to section qualifier and source only

1. PASE name (P2744) - currently inside IDs with datatype "string"

GeoGQL (talk) 17:06, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

 Done --DannyS712 (talk) 23:34, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. DannyS712 (talk) 23:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Chemistry-related #2

{{Edit request}} Please, move:

• P9405 (NMRShiftDB structure ID) after P4964 (SPLASH)

Wostr (talk) 15:34, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done --DannyS712 (talk) 23:36, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. DannyS712 (talk) 23:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Request to swap P1441 and P4584

first appearance (P4584) should be moved before present in work (P1441) Midleading (talk) 03:39, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

 Comment first appearance (P4584) is a subproperty of present in work (P1441) GeoGQL (talk) 12:14, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done present in work (P1441) is the parent property and makes sense to come first --DannyS712 (talk) 23:28, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

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Remove P920 (LEM ID) from section IDs with datatype "string"

Type was changed 2020-12-17 [4], since then it sorts in the section external IDs, but before at least most of them, e.g. before VIAF https://web.archive.org/web/20240125103711/https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1845#identifiers . It should be moved to between P2861 (Leidse Hoogleraren ID) and P11947 (Lemmy community ID). CV213 (talk) 16:09, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: this is wrong since three years, could you fix? CV213 (talk) 18:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@CV213: sure,  Done. --Epìdosis 18:41, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

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Create subsections inside Other properties with datatype "url"

It is requested that an edit or modification be made to this protected page.

The page has been added to Category:Wikidata protected edit requests.

Administrators: Please apply <nowiki> or {{Tl}} to the tag after the request is fulfilled.

Fulfill this request after you checked that it does not contain evil code

@Epìdosis:

1. Other properties with datatype "url" - generic
2. Other properties with datatype "url" - website-specific - alphabetic order

into the former move

*P6269 (API endpoint)
*P8768 (online catalog)
*P8934 (mailing list archive)
*P9138 (service status information URL)
*P9214 (FAQ URL)
*P9361 (external georeferencing URL)
*P9494 (accessibility statement URL)
*P9601 (official map URL)
*P11201 (official demo URL)
*P11212 (sitemap URL)
*P11221 (email unsubscribe URL or email)
*P11254 (translation contribution URL)
*P11266 (contact page URL)
*P11268 (press information)
*P11326 (impressum URL)
*P11556 (credits URL)

into the latter move

#P7890 (8-bits.info URL)
#P1348 (AlgaeBase URL)
#P2488 (page at Belarus Globe website)
#P1713 (biography at the Bundestag of Germany URL)
#P2649 (CQ Ranking men's team URL)
#P9519 (Digital Atlas of Idaho URL)
#P1421 (GRIN URL)
#P9908 (Hardy's Guide to Marine Gastropods URL)
#P7294 (itch.io URL)
#P4001 (Latvian Protected Nature Territory URL)
#P1991 (LPSN URL)
#P7707 (PlayStation DataCenter URL)
#P3268 (PORT organization URL)
#P8606 (Stairway To Hell ID)
#P2520 (UNESCO Biosphere Reserve URL)
#P6107 (Winterthur Glossar URL (DEPRECATED))
#P6363 (WordLift URL)

The second group could also be named IDs with datatype "URL" and moved before IDs with datatype "string". But that should be done after all are sorted between these two groups and then the first group could also be directly under Other properties with datatype "url". But for the process of separating these two types it is easier to have them close together under Other properties with datatype "url". The second group should have the items numbered like the other IDs, so one has a quick overview how many IDs exist in each group. GeoGQL (talk) 17:21, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Reason: The properties are of different nature, make that obvious on the page. Those in the second group are external identifiers and should be treated like external identifiers. GeoGQL (talk) 02:56, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

@ArthurPSmith, LennardHofmann: you voted on several of the datatype conversion proposals, @Arctic.gnome: you seem to be interested in general structural improvements: Several properties have been created with datatype URL but belong to one issuer/one system and are in fact external identifiers. What do you think about separating these into a dedicated section? Placement of that section and conversion are topics that can be addressed later. GeoGQL (talk) 16:35, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

GeoGQL are you proposing just to group the properties in this way through this sort ordering, or actually to introduce a new datatype in Wikidata? The grouping you suggest sounds fine to me. Not sure on the datatype issue. ArthurPSmith (talk) 19:39, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Here only grouping. GeoGQL (talk) 19:58, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, these are external identifiers, but for some reason we can't use the organization's own identifyer and instead have to use a URL? Makes sense to me that those would be grouped together. Arctic.gnome (talk) 17:43, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

@Sjoerddebruin: this is open for quite some time, three users agree. Can that be done? CV213 (talk) 19:48, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: open for 10 months. Can this be done? Singling out the IDs ("website-specific - alphabetic order") can help in overall management of the ID sections. Maybe among them, are some that now use a format that can be stored by datatype externalID. It also gives a better overall view of how many of the IDs are not stored by datatype externalID. Step 1 it seems is to create two subsections inside Other properties with datatype "url" and when the process is finished move the IDs with datatyoe "url" down to after IDs with datatype "string". CV213 (talk) 14:42, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done report if there are imprecisions. --Epìdosis 15:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Looks good, even done those that were not in the request yet. I checked for completeness and confirm no property was lost. Some name issues, some outdated names from the request [should be: P8768 (online catalog URL), P8934 (mailing list archive URL), P6269 (API endpoint URL), P2488 (Belarus Globe URL), P8606 (Stairway To Hell URL)] and two or three others missing "URL", which I just changed. Do you know how to run the update script User:DannyS712/SortedPropertiesUpdater.js? CV213 (talk) 19:11, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

The mentioned possibility of moving one section next to IDs of datatype string is addressed in Create section IDs not having datatype "external-id" before IDs with datatype "string". Updating of wrong names is independent of this section. So, I close this one now.

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 17:02, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Move section Web to after sections Names - Laws, treaties - Court cases - Encyclopedic articles

Web contains external links, mostly datatype URL, which typically come at the end, e.g. in Wikipedia articles. The other four contain properties exclusively(?) of datatype Item. No reason known, why the item statements of expecially these sections should come after external links. CV213 (talk) 16:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: can this be done? name day, legislated by, court ... all these currently come after external links. CV213 (talk) 19:37, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done. --Epìdosis 20:12, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 20:15, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Create section IDs not having datatype "external-id" before IDs with datatype "string"

into that move as subsections, preserving the existing order between them, the current:

29.9.2 Other properties with datatype "url" - website-specific
30 IDs with datatype "string"

rename the first to IDs with datatype "url".

The section heading 29.9.1 "Other properties with datatype "url" - generic" can then be removed, all content can be directly under 29.9 Other properties with datatype "url". CV213 (talk) 13:28, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: the possibility to move '"url" - website-specific' next to 'IDs with datatype "string"' was already mentioned in the proposal 'Create subsections inside Other properties with datatype "url"' (The second group could also be named IDs with datatype "URL" and moved before IDs with datatype "string".). I found that User:DannyS712/SortedPropertiesUpdater.js adds new properties into the first level subsections of "Other properties by datatype". That could mean properties of datatype URL are placed into the false second level subsection within 'Other properties with datatype "url" - website-specific'. So maybe good to split out the website-specific (ID-URLs) soon. CV213 (talk) 11:57, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done and @DannyS712: for notification if the updater needs to be edited accordingly. --Epìdosis 12:02, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Changing the sections shouldn't cause a problem, the only issue was removing the space at the start of entries - I went through and normalized this though. --DannyS712 (talk) 06:04, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: IDs with datatype different frm "external-id" - change frm to from. Re the updater, after having the old section headlines in that category back, there should be no effect on the updater. CV213 (talk) 16:18, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: seems when I do two pings before you edit, you only react to one. Understandable due to the technology, but so I ping again. CV213 (talk) 16:58, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

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Swap sections Web and Images (2)

Web contains external links, mostly datatype URL, which typically come at the end, e.g. in Wikipedia articles. Images (2) contains properties of datatype Item and datatype Commons media. There are properties of these datatypes in the sections above these. No reason known why the non-URL statements are interrupted by external-URL-statements.

@Epìdosis: can this be done? CV213 (talk) 12:16, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree,  Done. --Epìdosis 13:05, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 14:09, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Move three sections within Other properties by datatype to before URL

Currently:

29.8 Other properties with datatype "tabular data"
29.9 Other properties with datatype "url"
29.10 Other properties with datatype "wikibase-lexeme"
29.11 Other properties with datatype "wikibase-form"
29.12 Other properties with datatype "math"
29.13 Other properties with datatype "wikibase-sense"
29.14 Other properties with datatype "musical-notation"
29.15 Other properties with datatype "wikibase-property"
29.16 Other properties with datatype "geo-shape"

Proposed:

29.8 Other properties with datatype "tabular data"
29.9 Other properties with datatype "math"
29.10 Other properties with datatype "musical-notation"
29.11 Other properties with datatype "geo-shape"
29.12 Other properties with datatype "url"
29.13 Other properties with datatype "wikibase-lexeme"
29.14 Other properties with datatype "wikibase-form"
29.15 Other properties with datatype "wikibase-sense"
29.16 Other properties with datatype "wikibase-property"

URL means external links, which typcially come at the end, e.g. in Wikipedia articles. Math, musical notation, geo-shape (the proposal doesn't change the order between them) would typically come before external links. The status of the "wikibase-" properties isn't clear to me, so for now keep them, it is probably better that if the proposal is implemented they form a continuous group. CV213 (talk) 12:52, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: another one that affects properties having datatype URL. CV213 (talk) 14:11, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done it seems more rational, with a good grouping of the properties for lexemes. --Epìdosis 14:17, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 14:27, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Create new section Properties not used as main statements on Item or Lexeme pages

into this move

33 qualifier and source only
34 Property documentation
35 Sandbox properties

so it is clear to the reader of the page why these are there and that they have no effect on the flow on Item pages. That makes understanding the whole page easier. Effectively the last properties to appear before the ExternalIDs are those before that proposed section.

@Epìdosis: another proposal to make the page more organized and easier to understand. CV213 (talk) 16:36, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done --Epìdosis 16:48, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 16:56, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Move section IDs with datatype different from "external-id" closer to section IDs with datatype "external-id"

The current order is:

30 IDs with datatype different from "external-id"
31 Classification (2)
32 Commons, categories, templates, lists, portals
33 Properties not used as main statements on items and lexemes
34 IDs with datatype "external-id"

Suggest:

31 Classification (2)
32 Commons, categories, templates, lists, portals
30 IDs with datatype different from "external-id"
33 Properties not used as main statements on items and lexemes
34 IDs with datatype "external-id"

It could even be below 33, but that has no effect on item pages. Important is, to end on the item pages the interruption of the chain of IDs by non-ID statements. @Epìdosis: can this be done? CV213 (talk) 16:48, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done below 33 (it seems more coherent). --Epìdosis 16:55, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 17:00, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Move P11810 (Mastodon instance URL) from IDs back to Other properties by datatype

an error from the recent split, it isn't a site/owner specific property but can be used on every that has such a service. Sort by P-number:

P11556 (credits URL)
P11810 (Mastodon instance URL)
P11903 (login URL)

@Epìdosis: that should be the position where it was, more logical sorting inside datatype URL would be another topic. CV213 (talk) 17:35, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done --Epìdosis 17:42, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 19:51, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Create a section Works

into that move:

10 Works of art
17 Software
24 Laws, treaties
26 Encyclopedic articles

suggested position after 14 Math, which would mean moving Works of art down a bit and the others up, Software a bit, the other two a bit more. Following the intended position are Medicine, "Hardware, engineering", Constructions, which fully or partially could also go under Works.

@Epìdosis: the groups for properties of datatype Item are spread without visible logic. E.g. Math, Dimensions, Events are not works but are placed in between. To collect at least some of the works is a first step to fix that. CV213 (talk) 15:09, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done with some differences: Encyclopedic articles before Laws, treaties; Court cases just after Laws, treaties (for continuity in juridical matters). --Epìdosis 15:18, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: since differences results in a distance of Works from "Hardware, engineering" and "Constructions", please move these two also into the new "Works". Section Medicine is a mixed section, it doesn't only includes Works/Products/Creations so should be looked at later. CV213 (talk) 15:29, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done. --Epìdosis 15:39, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 15:43, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Rename section Biology to Biota

The properties in that section seem to be placed on items of type Biota, not on biological processes, organizations related to biology etc. The new name would fit with "Bodies of water" just above, it isn't aquatic science.

@Epìdosis: also fits with People and Non-person entities CV213 (talk) 23:43, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done agreed for uniformity. --Epìdosis 00:13, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 00:14, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Move P12330 Philippine middle name to section Names and titles

maybe after P8500 (Vietnamese middle name).

@Epìdosis: it is currently in Other properties with datatype "item". CV213 (talk) 13:40, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done --Epìdosis 13:43, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 17:28, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Cabinet

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Please put the new property has cabinet (P12443) in between head of government (P6) and executive body (P208) because it is a central organ of government closely tied to the head of government. Arctic.gnome (talk) 22:05, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Support. CV213 (talk) 22:30, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: ping. CV213 (talk) 16:50, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Epìdosis 17:29, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 20:21, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Move sections People (2) and Personal details into new section Persons (2) and rename People (1) to Persons (1)

Each contains properties to be placed on items of type:Person. Use the word Persons to make clear it is about individuals not a group. In that new section reorganize:

1. Move P835 (author citation (zoology)) one level up, out of People (2) - maybe it should be moved to Names after P4239 (vocalized name).
2. Rename People (2) to Existence which should contain without changing the order the properties from P569 (date of birth) to P1442 (image of grave).
3. Create Genealogy and relationships which should contain without changing the order the properties from P22 (father) to P3701 (incarnation of)
4. Put at the beginning of Personal details from old People (2) without changing the order the properties from P103 (native language) to P8195 (ex-libris)

@Epìdosis: the order of the properties doesn't change, but the sections would be more logical. CV213 (talk) 22:28, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done, I agree with the motivations. Epìdosis 09:12, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 12:14, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Move P138 named after to new section Name-related at the end of section Names and titles

P138 named after currently is inside section Non-person entities, but can be placed on other types of items which have sections above (Bodies of water), probably even Persons.

@Epìdosis: new section needed because the current last doesn't fit. CV213 (talk) 13:07, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Epìdosis 15:58, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 16:48, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Rename section Names to Given names and move to after section Language

Each of the four properties in that section has domain=given name, so name it accordingly.

The placement of the section should not have much effect on the placement of the properties on item pages, since they only appear on given name-items.

@Epìdosis: Placement next to section Language which is type-specific too seems to be more logical. It could also go into section Names and titles, have to check the properties there and in section Languages. (Property Soundex (P3878) aooears in section Languages but is also used on given name item Alexander Q923). CV213 (talk) 13:31, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done into section Names and titles. Epìdosis 15:59, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Don't agree with placement, but don't disagree either. Just didn't have time for analysis. CV213 (talk) 16:49, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 16:49, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

Move P21 (sex or gender) to before P361 (part of)

The P21 mostly appears on items about humans and is part of constraint violations involving "mother" and "father" claims. If it exists it is almost allways a single claim, so moving it up doesn't interfere much with the other claims currently placed before it, namely on human items images. But the images sometimes interfere a lot with seeing P21, sometimes there are two portraits, then a signature.

Why should it be before P361 part of? Because before a human is partOf something they have a sex/gender. In most cases items about humans don't use partOf, but sometimes they do, and there can be several claims.

@Sjoerddebruin, Epìdosis: any opinion? CV213 (talk) 19:06, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree, but let's keep this open for a few days for more input. Sjoerd de Bruin (talk) 19:09, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@Sjoerddebruin, Epìdosis: a week has passed, can this be done? CV213 (talk) 12:06, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Epìdosis 18:59, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 19:20, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Dissolve section Persons (1) rename section Persons (2) to Persons and maybe join with P1321 (place of origin (Switzerland)) and P66 (ancestral home)

Persons (1) currently contains:

• P21 (sex or gender)
• P27 (country of citizenship)
• P1532 (country for sport)
• P945 (allegiance)

Move

1. P21 to Classification (1) before part of. This has been proposed in above under the title "Move P21 (sex or gender) to before P361 (part of)", the suggested waiting time of one week is over - it could be done as part of that proposal there and that one there then closed.
2. the other three to Persons (2), closer to place of birth, which will have a relation to modern "country of citizenship". Maybe a new section "Country or allegiance" at the beginning, so they still come before Existence and Genealogy.

In Personal details there are:

• P1321 (place of origin (Switzerland))
• P66 (ancestral home)

These also store long-term connections to a place. P1321 will only appear on humans from Switzerland and for these it might be helpful in disambiguation, so placement more up could be helpful to editors. Currently languages spoken, written etc. are placed before these two, which doesn't seem so helpful in identification of the subject.

@Epìdosis: CV213 (talk) 17:14, 13 February 2024 (UTC) @Epìdosis: ping CV213 (talk) 17:00, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Epìdosis 18:59, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: I meant "Country or allegiance" at the beginning inside Persons, because the properties will appear on items of type Person. Now it is Persons (1) under a new name, which doesn't convey the type of items. CV213 (talk) 19:23, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

I initially put it at the beginning inside Persons, but that had the negative effect of putting country of citizenship (P27) and others after all the names, whilst presently country of citizenship (P27) and others come before names. Epìdosis 19:25, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: yes, that was a known side-effect. On the other hand allegiance (P945) isn't restricted to type:Person (=human, fictional human etc.) but can also be placed on military units, so the section name Persons, could be misunderstand. To have sections by type of item can be problematic if properties are used on different types of entities. We'll see. CV213 (talk) 19:30, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 19:20, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Move "issue tracker URL" and "user manual URL" to Other properties with datatype "url" - generic

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Above it is proposed to 'Create subsections inside Other properties with datatype "url"'.

Into the new section 'Other properties with datatype "url" - generic' move P1401 (issue tracker URL) and 'P2078 (user manual URL)' GeoGQL (talk) 16:25, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: two that could be moved into the newly created section URL-generic. CV213 (talk) 19:16, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm not fully sure, their collocation in the "Software" section seems somehow reasonable to me. I would prefer waiting for some other users' opinions. --Epìdosis 09:45, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

It doesn't look reasonable because user manual URL is since at least 2022 defined to be used on things other than software [5] and the section "17 Software" containing three URL-properties separated by others:

1. P1324 (source code repository URL)
2. P2992 (software quality assurance)
3. P1401 (issue tracker URL)
4. P2377 (MediaWiki hooks used)
5. P348 (software version identifier)
6. P4669 (tabular software version)
7. P751 (introduced feature)
8. P756 (removed feature)
9. P2379 (deprecated in version)
10. P2078 (user manual URL)

seems to be the only one to contain properties having datatype URL. It is ahead of "23 Web" where the first other generic identifiers are placed.

1. P856 (official website) //which is of type URL, I just added "URL" [6]
2. P1581 (official blog URL)
3. P2699 (URL)
4. P1065 (archive URL)
5. P973 (described at URL)
6. P953 (full work available at URL)
7. P8214 (curriculum vitae URL)
8. P1019 (web feed URL)
9. P963 (streaming media URL)
10. P1325 (external data available at URL)
11. P5305 (SPARQL endpoint URL)
12. P7014 (terms of service URL)
13. P7101 (privacy policy URL)

why would source code repository, issue tracker and user manual come before P856 official website URL? The three URL-properties should at least go to "23 Web" below P856. Could you move these three there? P856 is mentioned further up in the longer discussion "Request to boost Web section", instead of boosting the Web section, it was then proposed to move some properties down, to after P856, so that P856 comes before them, and that property is "boosted". The person supporting "Request to boost Web section" didn't mention P1324 (source code repository URL) so the opponent maybe didn't look at that one.

I now propose to move the three URLs from 17 Software to 23 Web directly after P2699 (URL) in the order they currently have:

* P1324 (source code repository URL)

* P1401 (issue tracker URL)

* P2078 (user manual URL)

Moving P1401 and P2078 could be done immediately, since moving down was requested for a long time, the new proposal by me moves them even less than originally requested. That P1324 wasn't suggested is probably due to the fact that it just wasn't mentioned in the other discussion. But it doesn't seem reasonable to have "source code repository URL" after "official website URL" - does it? CV213 (talk) 13:18, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Example: VirtualBox (Q11393)

1. source code repository URL
2. issue tracker URL
3. software version identifier : ~ 80(!) statements
4. user manual URL
5. official website URL
6. copyright license
7. copyright status
8. social media followers
9. IRC channel URL
10. Stack Exchange tag
11. Commons category
12. ...Identifiers

@Epìdosis: the URLs are not in one place, not even in two, but in three. The three mentioned in section Software should at least be moved to section Web. No reason known, why Software should be treated differnt from other types of works, and user manual URL isn't even restricted to software. CV213 (talk) 13:41, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: no reason why these URLs

* P1324 (source code repository URL)
* P1401 (issue tracker URL)
* P2078 (user manual URL)

would show up on item pages distant from the other URLs. CV213 (talk) 17:14, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done moved down. Epìdosis 17:32, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 17:44, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Move properties of datatype URL from section Web to beginning of section datatype URL

Section Web contains the following properties of datatype URL:

P4290 (official app) is of datatype Item
P856 (official website)
P1581 (official blog URL)
P2699 (URL)
P1065 (archive URL)
P973 (described at URL)
P953 (full work available at URL)
P8214 (curriculum vitae URL)
P1019 (web feed URL)
P963 (streaming media URL)
P1325 (external data available at URL)
P5305 (SPARQL endpoint URL)
P7014 (terms of service URL)
P7101 (privacy policy URL)

Datatype URL means external links, which typcially come at the end, e.g. in Wikipedia articles. Currently they are placed before 674 properties in Other properties with datatype "item". Move them to the beginning of Other properties with datatype "url" where several related properties are already located (registration, login, jobs, impressum, etc. URL) without changing their internal order.

@Epìdosis: another proposal for datatype URL, they should then almost all be in one section and come after properties of datatype Item. CV213 (talk) 15:11, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree in principle but for this I would prefer to wait for some other opinions (or at least no opposition for a week). --Epìdosis 15:14, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: 28 min left then a week has passed since proposal was published. CV213 (talk) 14:43, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done, no opposition. Epìdosis 14:59, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 15:02, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Request to boost Web section

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The Web section should be placed at least before Software section. It could be put immediately after People (2) section. Currently the official website for a software is drowned behind a huge list of software versions, which is not desirable. Midleading (talk) 13:20, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Oppose. After "People (2)" would put it before personal details, events. Currently it follows addresses, which is how website URLs are often given. Maybe link to an example where you are unsatisfied with the current ordering. GeoGQL (talk) 15:22, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

PHP (Q59),MediaWiki (Q83),Android (Q94) and all software items. The homepage official website (P856) is so difficult to find because you have to go through a long list of software version identifier (P348) which isn't more important than official website (P856). Midleading (talk) 03:22, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Still oppose. Looked at PHP. Anything after that section is hard to find. The versions should get their own items then stackexchange tag could also be removed from the main item. At the end, this is marked as instance of programming language (and many other subtypes, which is probably a bug too), and it is not a "software version", so why would it have a software version identifier? GeoGQL (talk) 16:43, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

First, PHP (Q59)instance of (P31)free software (Q341). It seems you do not agree to the current Wikidata model of software and argue that items like PHP 5.3.29" and "MediaWiki 1.23.14" should exist. But your opinion doesn't change the fact that software in Wikidata have lots of software version statements, and also users no longer care the software version more than its official website. Midleading (talk) 07:19, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Of course my "opinion" about how things are done don't change how things are done. This isn't even restricted to "my" opinion, but a property of each opinion of each contributor here. Re "users no longer care the software version more than its official website" - it's a database, the order of the statements in the default HTML view here is only relevant for some, since other means of viewing exist. GeoGQL (talk) 16:05, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

The only reason for placing "Web section" before "Software section" provided is "Currently the official website for a software is drowned behind a huge list of software versions, which is not desirable.". The actual property is named "software version identifier", i.e. there is no list of software versions, but software version identifier statements. Instead of moving some random other section upward as proposed, which as pointed out will change the presentation of items having nothing to do with software, one could restrict a change to the property that caused the request.

Below a request has been made to address the cause: #Move P348 (software version identifier) down to section IDs with datatype string. @Midleading: please state if you support that other request. GeoGQL (talk) 16:03, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

I couldn't agree with your new proposal because other software properties like "issue tracker URL" and "user manual URL" are also less important than P856. If the change could not affect other items, then the software section could be moved behind web section instead. Midleading (talk) 11:36, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

Can you explain why you couldn't agree? Doesn't it solve the problem you described? GeoGQL (talk) 16:20, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Regarding the new issue you desribed, I added a request below 'Move "issue tracker URL" and "user manual URL" to Other properties with datatype "url" - generic'. GeoGQL (talk) 16:26, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

Hey, do you really think almost every software properties are more important than web properties? But users are more likely to find P856 the most important. Other software properties, even topmost ones like programming paradigm (P3966), developer (P178) and platform (P400) are less important than P856. In fact if I want to find out more of a software, I would just follow P856 and leave Wikidata! (Developers also want to receive web traffic like that) Midleading (talk) 09:33, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

You reported issue A and suggested a fix X which would have changed a lot of other things too and you were told about that. I created fix A to solve issue A, you said you couldn't support it because there is also another issue B. I created fix B. You didn't support it but instead said there is also issue C and ask whether I really think D - something I never claimed. You didn't yet show the slightest understanding that your fix X would cause other issues. GeoGQL (talk) 15:32, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

What are the other issues? Provide an example with item or property ID please. If you mean "change the presentation of items having nothing to do with software", then I have already suggested software section could be moved behind web section instead. The sections currently between these two sections are "Media content ratings", "Constructions", "Banking" and "Dimensions". I think only video games may have both software properties and "Media content ratings" properties and could be affected, and in this case I think "Media content ratings" is also less important than P856 and P400. "Media content ratings" is typically presented as an icon in the corner as small as legally possible. Midleading (talk) 04:05, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Re "What are the other issues?" - See my first sentence in this section. BTW: I don't know why there is a software section at all. There is no bicycle-section, there is

'Works of art' but between them are 'Events', 'Science', 'Math', 'Medicine' which are of a different nature (processes and science). Further down is 'Laws, treaties'. There are two types of ordering, 1) properties (datatype, type/class, English label) of the property and 2) propeties of the item. Step one could be to mark the sections. GeoGQL (talk) 12:35, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I still can't find where the issue is. Link to an example, please. If you don't agree to the current content and ordering of sections in general, you should come up with a bigger proposal, rather than filling up this page with isolated requests. Midleading (talk) 02:38, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

1. "I still can't find where the issue is." - where did you search?
2. "If you .... you should ... " Please don't tell me what to do.
3. "rather than filling up this page with isolated requests" - didn't do that.

GeoGQL (talk) 20:51, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I hate to repeat for a third time: LINK TO AN EXAMPLE! I can't solve a problem that is not stated clearly and doesn't exist. Midleading (talk) 13:22, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Please calm down, evade hate and shouting. Why did you write "I can't solve a problem that [...] doesn't exist." - I clearly stated that there is one. What didn't you understand about my first sentence after "Oppose."? GeoGQL (talk) 14:54, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I think your issue is already addressed by moving software section behind web section instead. If you don't agree to that, give me the item ID where the problem is. It only proves the problem doesn't exist if not a single item ID could be used to demonstrate what the problem is. Midleading (talk) 13:13, 10 May 2023 (UTC)

Close, because:

1. Clarification request: "Maybe link to an example where you are unsatisfied with the current ordering."
2. Reply: "PHP (Q59),MediaWiki (Q83),Android (Q94) and all software items. The homepage official website URL (P856) is so difficult to find because you have to go through a long list of software version identifier (P348) which isn't more important than official website URL (P856)."

In the meantime "official website URL (P856)" isn't part of "Web section", all (?) properties of type URL are in 'Other properties with datatype "url"'. Also, when one searches for "url" on an item page, one can find these properties. Compared with Wikipedia pages where URLs are also at the end, it involves typing, but that is due to the fact, that there are no section headlines on the items.

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 18:13, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Split section Qualifier and reference only into Qualifier only, Qualifier or reference only, Reference only

Since the order on pages is Qualifier then Reference the proposal uses that order and the mixed ones in the middle, so when reading the page the mixed ones border each.

Qualifier only:

1. P453 (character role)
2. P5168 (applies to name of subject)
3. P8338 (applies to name of object)
4. P531 (diplomatic mission sent)
5. P560 (direction)
6. P654 (direction relative to location)
7. P642 (of)
8. (P1011)
9. (P1012)
10. P1013 (criterion used)
11. P1039 (kinship to subject)
12. P1107 (proportion)
13. P3680 (statement supported by)
14. P1319 (earliest date)
15. P1326 (latest date)
16. P1686 (for work)
17. P1706 (together with)
18. P2096 (media legend)
19. P2210 (relative to)
20. P2241 (reason for deprecated rank)
21. P2352 (applies to taxon)
22. P2807 (molar volume)
23. P2836 (highest income threshold)
24. P2835 (lowest income threshold)
25. P2912 (distinctive jersey) // no scope constraint
26. P2916 (syntax clarification)
27. P3149 (molecule conformation)
28. (P3274)
29. P3294 (encoding)
30. P3323 (opponent during disputation)
31. P3415 (start period)
32. (P3629)
33. P3740 (number of works) // also main statement
34. (P3831)
35. P3416 (end period)
36. P4070 (identifier shared with)
37. P4153 (offset)
38. P4155 (separator)
39. P4240 (regular expression syntax)
40. (P4241)
41. P4243 (candidate number)
42. P4271 (rating)
43. P4626 (identity of object in context)
44. P4633 (name of the character role)
45. P4649 (identity of subject in context)
46. P4680 (constraint scope)
47. P4714 (title page number) // also main statement
48. P4825 (deductions (in figure skating))
49. P4900 (broader concept)
50. P1774 (workshop of)
51. P1775 (follower of)
52. P1776 (circle of)
53. P1777 (manner of)
54. P1778 (forgery after)
55. P1779 (possible creator)
56. P1780 (school of)
57. P9570 (scope note)
58. P7008 (unabbreviated text)
59. P8626 (opening time)
60. P8627 (closing time)
61. P10808 (preceding halt on service)
62. P10809 (following halt on service)
63. P2744 (PASE name)

Qualifier or reference only:

1. P792 (chapter)
2. P813 (retrieved)
3. P2960 (archive date)
4. P1810 (subject named as)
5. P5997 (object stated in reference as)
6. P459 (determination method)
7. P972 (catalog) // 72,627 as main statement
8. P518 (applies to part)
9. P1011 (excluding) // mostly only Qualifier
10. P1012 (including) // should be next to P1011, has only Qualifier as scope
11. P3274 (content deliverer) // mostly only Qualifier
12. P1480 (sourcing circumstances)
13. P3629 (age of subject at event) // mostly only Qualifier
14. P3831 (object has role) // mostly only Qualifier
15. P4241 (refine date) // mostly only Qualifier
16. P4970 (alternative name)

Reference only:

1. P143 (imported from Wikimedia project)
2. P248 (stated in)
3. P854 (reference URL)
4. P887 (based on heuristic)
5. P3865 (type of reference)
6. P3452 (inferred from)
7. P4656 (Wikimedia import URL)

@Epìdosis: One should maybe look into "Qualifier or reference only" if they are set and used correctly. But make at least more visible here, how the main usage is. Not aware that the ordering here would have any incluence on the order on item pages - except for those that are also used as main statement, but for these the placement is weird anyway, a change in the order here, would only occur if the properties are in different sections, but there are only few. Aside from putting properties into sections the order has been kept. CV213 (talk) 19:24, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

@CV213: it seems reasonable (yes, in fact this has presently no influence on the order in item pages). Could you only clarify the meaning of the properties in parenthesis and without the label, like P1011? Thanks, Epìdosis 18:16, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: the six are with name in "Qualifier or reference only" but maybe should be in "Qualifier only", I put them as markers into Qualifier only to know where the position would have been, when put into that group. You can irgnore them (=delete in the copy, if you copy the list from the proposal) within "Qualifier only", but keep them in the proposal itself for later reference. I went through the list manually, and thought, I would make notes for any special observance I made, but probably all of this can be generated via SPARQL (if it doesn't time out). CV213 (talk) 21:53, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: ping CV213 (talk) 18:23, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done with only one difference: catalog (P972) moved after part of (P361), as it is also used as main statement and it is a subproperty of P361. Epìdosis 18:25, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

That it is a subproperty is definately something to be changed. Only because something is listed in a catalog doesn't make it a part of a catalog. CV213 (talk) 22:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: at Paul Watson (Q201670) the catalog statement now comes directly after sex/gender. Please revert, move it back. CV213 (talk) 22:18, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: "(P4241)" should be removed. CV213 (talk) 22:19, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Epìdosis 23:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 01:58, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Create section Symbols, Maps, Views, Other in section Images (2)

Symbols:

P163 (flag)
P41 (flag image)
P237 (coat of arms)
P94 (coat of arms image)
P418 (has seal, badge, or sigil)
P158 (seal image)
P4004 (escutcheon image)
P2238 (official symbol)
P367 (astronomic symbol image)
P14 (traffic sign)
P2910 (icon)

Maps:

P242 (locator map image)
P1943 (location map)
P1944 (relief location map)
P1621 (detail map)
P181 (taxon range map image)
P15 (route map)
P1846 (distribution map)

Views:

P2713 (sectional view)
P3451 (nighttime view)
P4291 (panoramic view)
P4640 (panoramic image)

Other:

...

Since Maps can be very similar to a View, put these sections next to each other.

@Epìdosis: put some explicit logic into this section CV213 (talk) 14:09, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done. Epìdosis 17:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 17:22, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Move P2893 Skype username to IDs with datatype "string"

there are 43 properties containing the string "username" in the English language label, 41 of these are in the section Other IDs with type "external-id" - alphabetical order.

@Epìdosis: this one just happens to have the wrong datatype. Please move down to ID section. How can conversion be done? CV213 (talk) 18:08, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done for the conversion from "string" to "external-id", the procedure is: first open a discussion in the talk page of the property proposing the change; if no objection is raised in a reasonable time (1-2 weeks), ask in WD:DEV and wait. Epìdosis 18:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 18:39, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Move to section qualifier only P554, P6887, P7528

P7528 (statement is regarded as spoiler for)
P554 (website username)
P6887 (match interval)

@Epìdosis: the three are misplaced. CV213 (talk) 18:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done Epìdosis 18:29, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: not for P554 (website username or ID) CV213 (talk) 18:38, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done Epìdosis 20:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 20:19, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Genealogy IDs

{{Edit request}} Change the order of the last three sections, so that the section "Genealogy IDs" is moved up one position and Other IDs are at the end, no reason known why one set would be in another position. New order with current numbering:

1. 35.6 Chess player IDs
2. 35.8 Genealogy IDs
3. 35.7 Other IDs with type "external-id" - alphabetical order

GeoGQL (talk) 18:58, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Regarding MediaWiki_talk:Wikibase-SortedProperties/Archive_2#IDs_for_genealogical_databases @Epìdosis: what was the reason to put the "Genealogy IDs" after the Other IDs? For other groups, e.g. "Chess player IDs" this is not done. GeoGQL (talk) 19:37, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

MediaWiki_talk:Wikibase-SortedProperties/Archive_2#IDs_for_genealogical_databases; @Jheald, Andrew Gray: for opinions. --Epìdosis 19:40, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

https://w.wiki/svi has 24, the section only 21. Data Collection of the Hungarian Peerage ID (P9129) could be added. GeoGQL (talk) 20:13, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: please move

P9129 Data Collection of the Hungarian Peerage ID 

to section "Genealogy IDs". Three other properties found by https://w.wiki/svi and not in the section are:

P5316	Swedish Signaturer.se ID
P9495	National Historical Museums of Sweden ID
P5871	Norwegian war refugees register ID

but they **don't seem to fit**. If P9129 is moved, the section could be closed as not done with respect to the main and initial request. CV213 (talk) 10:36, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: ping CV213 (talk) 12:29, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done moved P9129; I agree on the other 3 you mention. Epìdosis 13:52, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Basic request not done.

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 15:34, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

Rename VIAF members and contributors ordered by VIAF code to VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code

VIAF source seems to be the collective term, since at https://viaf.org/viaf/partnerpages/ISNI.html it says "ISNI is a Non-Contributor VIAF source." - If there are VIAF sources of type "Non-Contributor", there are probably also others.

"VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code" aligns with the other sections that have "IDs" in the name.

@Epìdosis: CV213 (talk) 16:44, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done Epìdosis 18:23, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 18:35, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Rename VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code to Other VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code

Since ISNI is also a VIAF source but not contained.

@Epìdosis: CV213 (talk) 22:32, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: CV213 (talk) 23:52, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done Epìdosis 23:58, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 00:07, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Move WorldCat - P7859 Identities - P10832 Entities - P5505 Registry - ID into new section WorldCat after Other VIAF source IDs

The section Other VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code contains 61 properties, of these 3 are not contributing sources:

1. P7041 (Perseus author ID) - Non-Contributor VIAF source - https://viaf.org/viaf/partnerpages/PERSEUS.html - 1982 main statements
2. P6934 (Syriac Biographical Dictionary ID) - Non-Contributor VIAF source - https://viaf.org/viaf/partnerpages/SRP.html - 352 statements
3. P7859 (WorldCat Identities ID (superseded)) - not a VIAF source

WorldCat isn't even a source. Create new section WorldCat after "Other VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code" and move P7859 there.

Also move:

1. P10832 (WorldCat Entities ID)
2. P5505 (WorldCat Registry ID)

into the new section.

@Epìdosis: WorldCat Identities ID has "item-requires-statement constraint property WorldCat Entities ID constraint status suggestion constraint" . They are related, they should be shown together and none of these should be shown as if it were a VIAF source. CV213 (talk) 22:33, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done thanks for the suggestion. Epìdosis 05:54, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: should be WorldCat IDs instead of WorldCat as is done for each other section inside IDs with datatype "external-id" and outside ISO IDs.

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 14:05, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Move P6833 title in HTML P6835 title in LaTeX to qualifier only

Two qualifier only are in Names and titles:

1. P6833 (title in HTML)
2. P6835 (title in LaTeX)

@Epìdosis: should be in qualifier only. CV213 (talk) 22:48, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: ping CV213 (talk) 11:33, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done Epìdosis 11:48, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 16:16, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

In section Names and titles create sections Personal names and titles and Other names and titles and move P1638 working title into the latter

into

1. Personal names and titles put the current properties from P1559 to P742
2. Other names and titles put the current properties from P2561 to P2441

@Epìdosis: first step to organize the name properties. In datatype "monolingual text" there is P1638 (working title) which should maybe go after P1680 (subtitle). CV213 (talk) 23:14, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done Epìdosis 11:48, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Note: P835 (author citation (zoology)) was moved up in the process. Didn't fully analyze the consequences. CV213 (talk) 16:19, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 16:17, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Move section Non-person entities to directly after section Persons and maybe merge

Currently

5 Persons
5.1 Existence
5.2 Genealogy and relationships
5.3 Personal details
8 Non-person entities
 ... properties outside subsection
8.1 Economy
8.2 Tourism

Proposal 1

5 Persons and organisations
5.1 Persons
5.1.1 Existence
5.1.2 Genealogy and relationships
5.1.3 Personal details
5.2 Organisations
5.2.1 Organisation details (herein: properties currently outside subsection)
5.2.2 Economy
5.2.3 Tourism

Proposal 2

5 Persons and organisations
5.1 Existence
5.2 Genealogy and relationships
5.3 Personal details
5.4 Organisation details (herein: properties currently outside subsection)
5.5 Economy
5.6 Tourism

Wikidata has a class "person or organization" (Q106559804) which does almost match:

1. VIAF "Personal", VIAF "Corporate"
2. ISNI "Person", ISNI "Organisation"

There are properties used on organisation- and on person-items, so a combined section makes it easier to have logical placement. See above "Re-arrange properties related to relationships" : P463 (member of) is an example for items used on both types and P1327 (partner in business or sport) an example of a property placed in Persons, strongly related to P463 which is distantly placed.

@Epìdosis: CV213 (talk) 20:10, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Having "Non-person entities" just after "Persons" is convincing. I'm not fully convinced about renaming "Non-person entities" into "Organisations"; although it's arguable that states, administrative units, sports teams etc. are organisations, for some properties I still think that having them under a more generic "Non-person entities" could be less confusing (a few examples: anthem (P85), culture (P2596), indigenous to (P2341), associated electoral district (P7938), mountain range (P4552), geoshape (P3896), airline alliance (P114), team captain (P634)). With this premise, I prefer proposal 1 over 2. Epìdosis 21:17, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: then please in a first step do Proposal 1. The properties mentioned seem with respect to organisatioins to fall into these groups:

1. Organisation: anthem (P85), culture (P2596), associated electoral district (P7938), airline alliance (P114), team captain (P634)
2. Organisations and others: indigenous to (P2341), geoshape (P3896)
3. Never organizations: mountain range (P4552)

CV213 (talk) 07:47, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure to understand: applying proposal 1 would imply changing the heading of "Non-person entities" to "Organisations", but as you confirm "Non-person entities" contains also properties which don't apply to organisations, e.g. mountain range (P4552). How do you suggest to solve this problem? Epìdosis 15:20, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

If one - probably misplaced - property is a reason not to proceed, then remove it. A proposal for that has been made below in "Create section Mountains and place it into new section Mountains and bodies of water". CV213 (talk) 17:29, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Proposal 1.1

5 Persons and non-person entities
5.1 Persons
5.1.1 Existence
5.1.2 Genealogy and relationships
5.1.3 Personal details
5.2 Non-person entities
5.2.1 Non-person entity details (herein: properties currently outside subsection)
5.2.2 Economy
5.2.3 Tourism

in case merge is objected:

6 Non-person entities
6.1 Non-person entity details (herein: properties currently outside subsection)
6.2 Economy
6.3 Tourism

@Epìdosis: ping CV213 (talk) 17:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: you did agree with moving up, and did not disagree with "XY details". Can you do that step, so we can close that and then discuss the other things? CV213 (talk) 18:14, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

I have no objection to the solution starting with "6 Non-person entities". I'm waiting answer to my last comment in #Create section Mountains and place it into new section Mountains and bodies of water in order to save the edit (which is ready). Epìdosis 18:39, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done while waiting I have suspended the edit below and changed this order as requested. Epìdosis 21:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 23:41, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Create section Mountains and place it into new section Mountains and bodies of water

Mountains and bodies of water would contain:

1. Mountains
   1. P4552 (mountain range)
   2. P3091 (mount) - from Other properties with datatype "item"
2. Bodies of water - the existing section

@Epìdosis: ping CV213 (talk) 16:12, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

mount (P3091) is not related with mountains. Epìdosis 16:38, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: thank you. Then leave that out. CV213 (talk) 16:39, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

See thread below #Geography. Epìdosis 16:42, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

That is much more than was requested. Please only fulfill this request and then talk. CV213 (talk) 17:14, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: please implement this one, so P4552 (mountain range) is removed from its current section - the placement there you mentionend as a reason not to proceed with re-arrangement. CV213 (talk) 17:28, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@CV213: Properties from elevation above sea level (P2044) to key col (P7479) regard mountains as well IMHO; I disagree with keeping them out of the section. Epìdosis 17:36, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: elevation above sea level (P2044) isn't restricted to mountains, so moving that maybe isn't an improvement. key col (P7479) seems to be restricted to mountains, so move should be OK. CV213 (talk) 23:45, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done Epìdosis 23:51, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 00:00, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Create sections inside section Events for properties outside of any subsection

Currently:

12 Events
12.1 Elections
12.2 Space flights

but unvisible in the table of contents, there are properties before 12.1 - for these create sections:

1. Time and location of event P2348 to P1534
2. Participants P664 to P3764
3. Other properties of events P3494 to P7167

No change in order of properties.

@Epìdosis: just to start. Currently two classes of events have their own sections: Elections and Space flights. But creating sections for types of events causes trouble when the types have no exclusive set of properties. E.g. participants comes before, the two type-specific sections, so if any of the participant-properties is used on items for elections or space flights, this property appears before. The situation should be further analyzed. CV213 (talk) 23:59, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: ping CV213 (talk) 12:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done (I used "Other properties for events" instead of "of"). Epìdosis 13:52, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Difference between for and of should be explained in general, maybe in a short list of rules. CV213 (talk) 13:54, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 13:54, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Move P289 vessel class to after P279

Currently:

P31 (instance of)
P279 (subclass of)
P10241 (individual of taxon)
P21 (sex or gender)
P361 (part of)
P16 (transport network)
P3450 (sports season of league or competition)
P5138 (season of club or team)
P289 (vessel class)

1. P10241 (individual of taxon) is used instead of P31 "instance of" for instances of Biota, except humans.
2. P289 (vessel class) is used instead of P31 "instance of" for instances of ships.

There is no reason known why individuals of ships would be treated different from individuals of taxons. Since it was opposed to move both properties next to their superproperty P31 and before P279, treat them at least equally by placing them after P279 subclass of,.

Classifications for ships currently comes after part of and transport network - no other individual physical entities are treated like that. CV213 (talk) 19:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: ping CV213 (talk) 19:25, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@CV213: I think the two statements of the motivation are incorrect:

1. "P10241 (individual of taxon) is used instead of P31 "instance of" for instances of Biota, except humans." only 11 items have P289 and not P10241 (https://w.wiki/9KRX), whilst 14165 have both P289 and P10241 (https://w.wiki/9KRa)
2. "P289 (vessel class) is used instead of P31 "instance of" for instances of ships." only 49 items have P289 and not P31 (https://w.wiki/9KRV), whilst 17539 have both P289 and P31 (https://w.wiki/9KRT)

Please provide another motivation. Epìdosis 20:29, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: "I think the two statements of the motivation are incorrect" - please provide evidence.

1. "only 11 items have P289 and not P10241" - that is not true. https://w.wiki/9KTX : 17588
2. "only 49 items have P289 and not P31" - confirmed https://w.wiki/9KTZ . The others should be fixed.

CV213 (talk) 21:54, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

My phrase 1 above has indeed an obvious mistake; it should have been "only 11 items have P31 and not P10241 (https://w.wiki/9KRX), whilst 14165 have both P31 and P10241 (https://w.wiki/9KRa)". Of course P289 and P10241 have no relationship between themselves. --Epìdosis 22:45, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

---

P289 proof of usage instead of instance of:

1. HMS Stalker (Q74751)
   1. P31: "instance of: escort carrier"
   2. P289: "vessel class: Attacker-class escort carrier" - Attacker-class escort carrier (Q2975763) P279 subclass of escort carrier (Q253555)

@Epìdosis: proof is here. CV213 (talk) 22:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

OK, then there was a misunderstanding about what you meant for "instead of". I meant "instead of" as vessel class (P289) (or P10421) used in absence of instance of (P31); you meant P289 (or P10421) used as a complement to P31, in order to precise its meaning. In this sense, it is agreable.  Done --Epìdosis 22:45, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

vessel class (P289) is only used for the specialized relationship between a vessel and its class, e.g., between Titanic (Q25173) and Olympic-class ocean liner (Q767166). In Wikidata generalizations of these relationships are generally not explicitly recorded so it is in this sense, and in this sense only, that vessel class (P289) is replacing subclass of (P279) here. But because of the subproperty relationship between vessel class (P289) and instance of (P31) nothing has been lost from the intended meaning of the Wikidata data. Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talk) 20:02, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

@Peter F. Patel-Schneider: P289 isn't a subproperty of P279 but of P31. CV213 (talk) 20:06, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Indeed. I'll fix my comment. Peter F. Patel-Schneider (talk) 20:07, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

@Peter F. Patel-Schneider: P289 isn't replacing P279 "here" but P31. CV213 (talk) 20:18, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: ... instead of how instance of is normally used, namely giving the most precise class. CV213 (talk) 22:51, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. CV213 (talk) 22:51, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Convert to numbered the lists in Other properties by datatype and maybe also

...maybe also those that follow. Other properties by datatype contains long lists, so the reasoning that was used to convert other lists before is valid here too (MediaWiki_talk:Wikibase-SortedProperties/Archive_%(counter)d#Use_ordered/numbered_list_in_section_IDs_with_datatype_string_as_done_in_section_IDs_with_datatype_external-id).

Maybe do it for all that follow "Other properties by datatype and maybe also", only few remain:

31 Classification (2)
32 Commons, categories, templates, lists, portals
33 Properties not used as main statements on items and lexemes

These are all the more technically sorted sections as opposed to the upper half ending in section Web.

@Epìdosis: a formatting, readability orientated proposal. CV213 (talk) 17:44, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm not fully convinced, as of now # is used only for IDs; extending # to these other properties would contradict this criterium, and would make a bit less comfortable the possible moving of properties from this indistinct section to the above ones (since it would require changing from # to *). Anyway, I will do if the proposal will get further support. --Epìdosis 17:53, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Agree with moving concern, so do it for all on the page. It was done first(?), on 2020-06-02, by you here referring to a subsection of a first-level section. The first-level section gives as reason "listed here as ordered list (#) instead of unordered (*) - too many". 2023-04-01 you did more (MediaWiki_talk:Wikibase-SortedProperties/Archive_%(counter)d#IDs_with_datatype_"external-id"_-_convert_sublists_to_numbered_lists). A request from the same day was enacted 2024-01-07 (MediaWiki_talk:Wikibase-SortedProperties/Archive_%(counter)d#Use_ordered/numbered_list_in_section_IDs_with_datatype_string_as_done_in_section_IDs_with_datatype_external-id).

So, it should be done for long lists and should be done for all to not interfere with moving. CV213 (talk) 18:24, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Epìdosis 12:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Rename section Dimensions to Datatype "quantity" - dimensions

Currently sections are named for 1) datatype of the property 2) type of data they are used on.

The section Dimensions only contains properties of datatype "quantity". Make this obvious for this section by naming it accordingly.

@Epìdosis: One more step to organize the page. Maybe later one can have a section for quantity of physical objects (number of victims etc.) CV213 (talk) 18:10, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure about uniformity: all sections before "Other properties by datatype" don't mention datatype in their titles. I would like more opinions on this. --Epìdosis 18:14, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

The page is meant to organize properties. Also the sections Other properties by datatype and the subsections therein were once introduced as new. The page currently is quite messy, there is Bodies of water - but where are the mountains? Etc. To make it less messy, it helps to introduce sections names that reveal what a section contains. Here it doesn't contain properties to describe entities of the type that have the name of the section (Dimensions), which is fundamentally different from the section Bodies of water which contains properties to describe instances of Bodies of water.

This section here contains properties that have similar types of object of the statements that can be made using these properties, not similar types of subject. CV213 (talk) 18:46, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Epìdosis 12:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

IDs having datatype "url"

These are to be reviewed, some deleted, some converted, some kept. Since after conversion or deletion a change to the page Wikibase-SortedProperties is required, they are listed here.

1. Property:P7890 (8-bits.info URL) - prefix https://www.8-bits.info/gamelist/ , ending .php
2. Property:P5715 (Academia.edu profile URL) -2 segment id- KEEP
3. Property:P1348 (AlgaeBase URL) -different types-
4. Property:P2488 (Belarus Globe URL) - Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P2488 - convert
5. Property:P1713 (biography at the Bundestag of Germany URL)
6. Property:P2649 (CQ Ranking men's team URL)
7. Property:P9519 (Digital Atlas of Idaho URL)
8. Property:P12270 (Flora of the Hawaiian Islands URL) - Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P12270 - convert
9. Property:P10422 (Ghana Place Names URL)
10. Property:P5178 (glossary entry at Wikipedia URL) - Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P4001 - delete
11. Property:P1421 (GRIN URL)
12. Property:P9908 (Hardy's Guide to Marine Gastropods URL)
13. Property:P7294 (itch.io URL) -2 segment id- KEEP
14. Property:P4001 (Latvian Protected Nature Territory URL) - Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P4001 - delete
15. Property:P1991 (LPSN URL) - at least two types of prefixes https://lpsn.dsmz.de/class/ and https://lpsn.dsmz.de/species/
16. Property:P12273 (Montana Plant Life URL) - Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P12273 - convert
17. Property:P7375 (MWNF URL)
18. Property:P4997 (National Governors Association biography URL) - Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P4997 - convert
19. Property:P12180 (PAEnflowered taxon URL) - two types of prefixes https://www.paenflowered.org/apgii/ and https://www.paenflowered.org/catalog/
20. Property:P7707 (PlayStation DataCenter URL)
21. Property:P3268 (PORT organization URL)
22. Property:P6541 (Stack Exchange site URL)
23. Property:P8606 (Stairway To Hell URL) prefix https://www.stairwaytohell.com/games/ ending .htm
24. Property:P7705 (superfamicom.org URL)
25. Property:P2520 (UNESCO Biosphere Reserve URL)
26. Property:P5195 (Wikidata Dataset Imports URL)
27. Property:P7930 (Wikimedia community discussion URL)
28. Property:P9748 (Wikimedia Incubator URL) - Wikidata:Properties for deletion/P9748 - convert
29. Property:P7569 (Wikimedia page-version URL)
30. Property:P1957 (Wikisource index page URL)
31. Property:P6107 (Winterthur Glossar URL (DEPRECATED))
32. Property:P6363 (WordLift URL)

CV213 (talk) 20:34, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Epìdosis 12:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Move ISNI into a new section ISO VIAF source at the end of section ISO IDs

ISNI is an ISO ID and the only one not in section ISO IDs. On some item pages several ISO IDs are listed, followed by VIAF then ISNI.

The proposal fixes that while still having ISNI which is a "Non-Contributor VIAF source" next to the VIAF section. The ISO section is above VIAF section, so ISNI P213 (the external-id with the lowest property number in Wikidata) should be above VIAF ID P214.

@Epìdosis: ping. CV213 (talk) 16:35, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm against because of Wikidata:Requests for comment/Sort identifiers + MediaWiki talk:Wikibase-SortedProperties/Archive 1#Move P213 (ISNI) to section ISO IDs. I will do only if there is a strong consensus for this change (the RfC was concluded with 7 favorable votes). Epìdosis 18:21, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

VIAF less reliable than ISNI, e.g.:

1. http://web.archive.org/web/20240223000258/https://viaf.org/viaf/164409935/
2. http://web.archive.org/web/20240223001852/https://viaf.org/viaf/138969382/

CV213 (talk) 00:06, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Mixed ordering ISO-VIAF-ISO

1. Q157645#identifiers
   1. Legal Entity Identifier 8ER8GIG7CSMVD8VUFE78
   2. ISIN DE0005552004
   3. ISO 9362 SWIFT/BIC code DPAGDE33XXX
   4. VIAF ID 142537634 , 132965949
   5. ISNI 0000000122863497

CV213 (talk) 14:40, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Wikidata:Requests for comment/Sort identifiers#Proposal 1 and its support:

1. Epid: proposal itself: VIAF, ISNI, VIAF members, 5x ISO, the rest
2. Moeb: support plus ISWC, ISRC, IPI before other music identifiers
3. Alex: support plus "discuss small adjustements once in a while"; comment further down: 'fixing the first part of this list is obviously an interative process if we cannot adopt any other "formal" method' (first part probably meaning before the rest [alphabetical section])
4. Jc86: support plus agree "adding P1827, P1243 and P1828 before the alphabetical identifiers" (ISWC, ISRC, IPI)
5. Arth: support plus "We could check with each Wikiproject to see what identifiers they care about most to prioritize those"
6. Obtu: support - no extra note
7. Nw52: support plus "I especially appreciate that authority control identifiers are at top and more general identifiers above sectorial ones."

The current situation:

1. all ISO beside ISNI (against proposal: before VIAF)
2. VIAF cluster ID
3. ISO ID ISNI
4. Other VIAF source IDs
5. Library classification IDs
6. Chemistry IDs
7. Chemistry-related IDs
8. Chess player IDs
9. Other IDs with type "external-id" - alphabetical order
10. Genealogy IDs (against proposal: after the rest)

CV213 (talk) 15:18, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Epìdosis 12:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Add word other before VIAF source and resolve inconsistent placement for P213 ISNI and P214 VIAF - create section or move to other section

Property:P213 ISNI and Property:P214 VIAF are the only properties that are placed in a section of level X while a section of level X+1 exist in that section. Additionally that section of level X has only one subsection.

Currently:

27.1.5 Other
27.2 VIAF-related IDs
 VIAF, ISNI
27.2.1 VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code
27.3 Library classification IDs

Proposal 1:

27.1.5 Other
27.2 VIAF-related IDs
27.2.1 VIAF then ISNI
27.2.2 Other VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code
27.3 Library classification IDs

Proposal 2:

27.1.5 Other
27.2 VIAF then ISNI then other VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code
27.3 Library classification IDs

Proposal 2 - no subsections in 27.2 and removal of vague "VIAF-related".

@Epìdosis: CV213 (talk) 21:16, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Personally I prefer the present situation over proposal 1, and proposal 1 over proposal 2. If there will be consensus for adopting proposal 1 or 2 in substitution of the present situation, I will of course apply the change. Epìdosis 21:43, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

But why? Just to say "I prefer" is not a discussion. CV213 (talk) 22:29, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

I don't see the specific need to create a new subsection "VIAF then ISNI" whose name is just a reduplication of its content (P214 + P213) or to create one section with a name which is very long and IMHO too complex like "VIAF then ISNI then other VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code" (I think the simple "VIAF source IDs ordered by VIAF code" would be sufficient). Epìdosis 23:25, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

But there is a specific need. CV213 (talk) 15:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Epìdosis 12:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Re-arrange properties related to relationships

1. P1327 (partner in business or sport) is in 5.3 Personal details at position xxx (unknown, more than a page on FHD screen)
2. P463 (member of) is in 8. Non-person entities at position xxx (unknown, more than a page on FHD screen)

Human Q299138: the two partners are the result of them being member of same entities, in between statements about instrument, discography, notable work. Following is genre (work related) and record label.

member of isn't only used on Non-person entities, the positioning there is misleading. CV213 (talk) 01:00, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Epìdosis 12:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Geography

Checking the section "Non-person entities" I noticed it contained a lot of geographical properties, besides others regarding organizations (stricto sensu), politics, demography and economy; since the difference between the two fields is significant, I have tried to disentangle them with a new section "Geography", under which I have moved also the existing "Bodies of water". I have also changed the order of the sections from "Persons", "Bodies of water", "Biota", "Non-person entities" to "Persons", "Non-person entities", "Geography", "Biota". Of course I can revert the change if there are objections; and any suggestions are welcome. --Epìdosis 16:42, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: I disagree with that, please revert. Respect process to avoid problems. CV213 (talk) 17:13, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

 reverted. Epìdosis 17:22, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Geography is a science, ordering of properties by science isn't done much on that page. Properties are not created along the lines of sciences, but of types of entities. For math and chemistry there are maybe few overlapping areas, but geography is related to biota, buildings, ways, landforms ... CV213 (talk) 17:35, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

"Places" or "Places and geographic areas" or similar could be substituted to "Geography" as well. Epìdosis 17:42, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Epìdosis 12:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Move P10241 individual of taxon and P289 vessel class to directly after P31 instance of and before P279 subclass of

1. P10241 (individual of taxon) is used instead of P31 "instance of" for instances of Biota, except humans. So it should come directly after P31.
2. P289 (vessel class) is used instead of P31 "instance of" for instances of ships. So it should come directly after P31.

@Epìdosis: ping CV213 (talk) 14:14, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: CV213 (talk) 18:17, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I had a look at all the items having both individual of taxon (P10241) and subclass of (P279): 9, on which I'm still uncertain, are left (https://w.wiki/9KMi); I have cleaned up the others. For vessel class (P289) and subclass of (P279) the cases are 83 (https://w.wiki/9KMp). With the premise that I'm not an expert neither in biology nor in classification of ships, I'm against the change: instance of (P31) and subclass of (P279) are the most important classification properties (per Help:Basic membership properties) and separing them with other sectorial properties could be confusing. The change should at least be discussed by the members of Wikidata:WikiProject Ontology and receive their consensus. Epìdosis 18:26, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: the implementation of the proposal wouldn't change their importance. Items having P10241 or P289 are never classes. Exactly that would be more clear with the proposed placement. Even you seem to be confused. That means on items pages "separing them with other sectorial properties could be confusing" would never happen. CV213 (talk) 18:37, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@CV213: OK, please report this discussion in Wikidata talk:WikiProject Ontology; after that, I will wait a week and, if there will be no objection, I will apply the change. Epìdosis 18:41, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: P10241 and P289 are used on physical entities, everywhere else P31 is used on items that represent such entities. Property:P289#P1647 and Property:P10241#P1647 each state "subproperty of P31". The ontological situation in Wikidata is clear and the proposal presented here does not intend to change that. The queries https://w.wiki/9KMi (P10241) and https://w.wiki/9KMp (P289) return each an empty result.

So, there is no issue to report to Wikidata talk:WikiProject Ontology.

P16 transport network Property:P16#P1647 subproperty of "part of" is placed directly after P361 (part of).

In a related thread the "used instead of" was contested and clarified to "instead of how instance of is normally used, namely giving the most precise class". So, the two properties are used for giving the most precise class for physical entities. As such, the two should come before subclass of, since P31 (most precise class value otherwise) isn't used in the regular way on the items where the two properties are used. CV213 (talk) 16:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I have reported to WikiProject Ontology; if there is no objection, I will apply the change on March 9. Epìdosis 19:09, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I explained why in my opinion the request has nothing to do with Wikiproject Ontology and you reply with reporting it there. And place of report (Wikidata talk:WikiProject Ontology#Order of properties: P279 just after P31 or not) not linked. CV213 (talk) 19:12, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Epìdosis 12:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

To be solved - observations of questionable order

1. 2016–17 Cypriot First Division (Q23756432) - sponsor listed before start and end time and country. CV213 (talk) 23:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Epìdosis 12:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Create a text with general rules and hints

To transparently document why certains things are done, start writing a text containing a) general rules b) hints.

Proposed rule #1: Properties should not be stored in sections that contain sections.

Proposed hint #1: When proposing the move of a property to another location, think about the consequences it may have on all the pages where according to the settings it can be used. Some properties are used on a large variety of items, so making it "better" for some pages, can make it worse for other pages.

@Epìdosis: opinion? CV213 (talk) 23:15, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@CV213: I agree very much on hint #1; for rule #1 I'm not sure to understand it, could you make one or two examples? Thanks, Epìdosis 23:18, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: Rule #1: This ensures each list of properties can be referred to by only the name of the section it is contained in. If a section 1 would contain N subsections 1.N and properties outside these sections, i.e. before 1.1, this would not be possible, since the section the list is contained in also contains other lists.

It was like that in section Events, see "Create sections inside section Events for properties outside of any subsection". CV213 (talk) 23:34, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

OK, it's clear: Sections should not contains properties outside subsections, if they contain subsections. I'm neutral on this. Epìdosis 23:42, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: I changed to: "A property should not be stored in a section outside a subsection if the section contains a subsection.". Section added at top of this page. CV213 (talk) 20:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

I disagree on setting a general rule (i.e. rule #1) on the basis of a discussion of 1 day between two users, one favourable and one neutral. I would wait at least one week;

JakobVoss (talk) ClaudiaMuellerBirn (talk) Criscod (talk) Daniel Mietchen (talk) Ettorerizza (talk) Ls1g (talk) Pasleim (talk) Hjfocs (talk) 17:24, 21 January 2019 (UTC) PKM (talk) 2le2im-bdc (talk) 20:30, 24 January 2019 (UTC) Vladimir Alexiev (talk) 16:37, 21 March 2019 (UTC) ElanHR (talk) User:Epìdosis (talk) Tris T7 ^{TT me} UJung (talk) 11:43, 24 August 2019 (UTC) Envlh (talk) SixTwoEight (talk) User:SCIdude (talk) Will (Wiki Ed) (talk) Mathieu Kappler (talk) So9q (talk) 19:33, 8 September 2021 (UTC) Zwolfz (talk) عُثمان (talk) 16:31, 5 April 2023 (UTC) M2k~dewiki (talk) 12:28, 24 September 2023 (UTC) —Ismael Olea (talk) 18:18, 2 December 2023 (UTC) Andrea Westerinen (talk) 23:33, 2 December 2023 (UTC) Peter Patel-Schneider

Notified participants of WikiProject Data Quality for opinions. Epìdosis 21:42, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: Hint #2: Sections currently exist based on different criteria:

1. By type of value
   1. By datatype of value
      1. all properties of datatype external-id are listed in one section of level 1
      2. several properties are listed within section Other properties by datatype in a subsection of level 2 by datatype
      3. the section of level 1 named Dimensions contains only properties of datatype quantity, but not all properties of that datatype
2. By type of page they are used on:
   1. e.g. section "Properties not used as main statements on items and lexemes"
   2. By type of item, e.g. section "Persons"

CV213 (talk) 20:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree on hint #2 but I would suggest phrasing it in a more compact way; I think making it more readable could also make it more useful for users who will try to apply it. Epìdosis 21:44, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

@Epìdosis: it is still in development, most important to have it correct and complete. I did choose a tree structure, because that way less words are needed, and some visiual guides is given. I moved it up and expanded. Maybe Hint #3 should be about how sorting is currently done. CV213 (talk) 23:22, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Epìdosis 12:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Rename VIAF-related IDs to VIAF cluster ID and VIAF source IDs

Current name too vague.

@Epìdosis: CV213 (talk) 13:46, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Personally I don't agree, I think the present name is clear enough. Epìdosis 15:32, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Related can be anything. The type of relation isn't stated. "human eye" isn't stated as "human"-related in Wikidata. VIAF-related IDs encompasses more than what is actually contained in the section. CV213 (talk) 15:47, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done request from an indefinitely blocked sock --DannyS712 (talk) 18:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment. DannyS712 (talk) 18:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)