Wikidata

Wikidata:Project chat/Archive/2014/03

< Wikidata:Project chat‎ | Archive‎ | 2014
This page is an archive. Please do not modify it. Use the current page, even to continue an old discussion.

Alexa rating

HI my first edit at data, I noticed on my en.wp watchlist a bot running around updating alexa ratings for a number of pages I presume that this is something that would probably be a perfect fit for Wikidata to under take. Here is an example edit https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Railpage_Australia&curid=5042654&diff=597610609&oldid=593641764 if someone is interested in it. Gnangarra (talk) 03:33, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

I worry that w:Alexa Internet data is not free (libre). They could argue that wikidata is replicating their database, violating database rights. I put forward that concern for P1169 (P1169), and yet that property was created. See Property talk:P1169. John Vandenberg (talk) 07:05, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

The best we could do is create a new property to link to the Alexa entry, and even that might be better covered by some existing property.--Jasper Deng (talk) 07:08, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Pages that are archived by moving change title here

Hi. Whenever I archive this page on pt.wikipedia, the name here on Wikidata is changed (example: diff). However, the page destined to sockpuppet investigations remains the previous one. Is there a way to prevent that from happening?—Teles «Talk to me˱M @ C S˲» 19:33, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Pressing enter after typing string causes error

Can anybody reproduce this. When I enter a string and press enter it doesn't save and hitting enter a second time produces an error. It also happens when I press enter once an then try to hit save with the mouse. --Tobias1984 (talk) 21:17, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

+1 for the first case. And chosen item-value is also not saved by keyboard. Infovarius (talk) 21:37, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Asking for assistance in Russian

I think that I might did a mistake, sorry. Labradorite and labradorite (mineral) seem to be two articles about the same thing.
Were the Wikidata articles right so?
Thanks --Chris.urs-o (talk) 06:56, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Open Street Map - Storing queries

There is a proposal to store queries to open street map that could use input from a wider audience:

please note that this discussion isn't just about making a new property, It's about how Wikidata handles OSM Amir (talk) 19:50, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Constraints reports updating

Hi, daily dumps are broken. So my bot stops updating constraint reports. I want to find some alternative way to get information for my bot. Could somebody consult me about WikiLabs? Is it possible to create some script on WikiLabs or another server that will generate something similar to daily dump? I need all property values of all items that was changed during day. Is it realistic task for WikiLabs or I need find some another way? — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 20:56, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Not an answer, just something for the wishlist: Do we have already Wikidata dumps with plain json? I would love to have something like a WikiQuery command line tool based on the plain information of Wikidata - without the whole MediaWiki-Overhead of the dumps I saw so far.  — Felix Reimann (talk) 21:22, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
I know only about wikidatawiki-*-pages-meta-current.xml.bz2 dumps. This is JSON->XML->BZIP2. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
Now is in process full dump from 26th february. What about to use this once per three weeks? It can reveal some violations which are not in incremental dumps. JAn Dudík (talk) 06:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
20140226 is used of cause. It is bad then errors exists for a weeks. We need react to errors more fast.

A 'simple' way to obtain JSON for a property is to use WikiDataQuery like this. User:Magnus Manske may know whether WikiDataQuery is getting updates correctly. Probably not. I have been using python hack to export XML from the wiki for all items with a property, which I then pass through parse_xml_bz2.php to convert to a simpler data format, which can then be used easily by a bot (e.g. User:JVbot/periodicalbot.py). It works well for the ~5 properties on ~25,000 items that I am working on; not sure that approach is suitable for you with checking constraints for 1100+ properties that cover almost every item in Wikidata. --John Vandenberg (talk) 11:23, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

The WikiDataQuery are correct, with the exception that they are ~10min out of date, and may contain entries from recently (as in, several days) deleted items. On the same site, there are also some simple consistency checks like string values for a property occurring twice, or missing "backlinks". The returned data suffer from the limitations described, and more complex queries (string regexp checks, multi-property backlinks like brother <=> [brother or sister]) are not implemented yet. I could look into that if there is demand. --Magnus Manske (talk) 11:32, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, wikidata-wdq-mm.instance-proxy.wmflabs.org is tool that I need. But it fails for some properties unfortunately. Tools like this is good step. I hope sometimes tools like this cover all functional of constraints reports and the reports will be deprecated. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 14:21, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
I try to use wikidata-wdq-mm.instance-proxy.wmflabs.org, but looks like that its database is not synced with Wikidata. Some examples: this report contains Q15436221, but this element does not contain P214. This report returns empty result, but Property:P1119 is used in more then 50 items. Is there some bugtracker or discussion page to report all problems for this tool? — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 07:45, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Head of state Ukraine (Q212)

Data wrong. According to this source it should be Turchynov Oleksandr Valentynovych  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.40.222.160 (talk • contribs) at 3 March 2014‎ (UTC).

Thanks for pointing it out, fixed now. There can be also former heads of state, but with qualifiers start date and end date. --09:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC), Utar (talk)

Bringing the m:Wikidata pages on board, then giving helpful help pages on how to pull data

I would like to suggest that the pages at m:Wikidata or those that are really relevant to operations are brought here and redirects put in place to point to them. If those pages are not brought over then they should be labelled as historical so that they are not relied upon.

I would really like to see the page m:Wikidata/Notes/Inclusion syntax updated and brought here as a prominent page for the Wikipedians/Wikivoyagers/Wikisourcers and hopefully for Commonists at a not too distant time. To me it should be a prominent page that shows all these sister sites how to inhale data to their wikis.

I am also told that to get certain properties like the intersister links that one has to use Lua. So how about we look to give working examples on how one might call the enWP link for something at enWS and vice versa. There are so many little wikis and less clueful people who can adapt a script but cannot write them. So if this site can cater for the basics of making it easy to pull WD data, then the demonstrated value is here too, rather than some of the 'more work' aspects of WD data compilation.  — billinghurst sDrewth 07:57, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

@billinghurst: Good idea! I have started a draft for the main help contents page to know which new help pages are needed (original: Help:Contents). There is also a need for a Help:Infoboxes, a short migration guide for old infoboxes, the thing is that AFAIK we haven't discussed yet where how to deal with common modules/templates and where to place them.--Micru (talk) 17:06, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
@Micru: I feel that one way that could be handled is something like Wikidata:For Wikipedians, Wikidata:For Wikisourcers, Wikidata:For Wikivoyagers. Some parts will be common to all three, and some will be quite specific. I can see that Wikisource could do something in reverse. We already do a page for Wikipedians.  — billinghurst sDrewth 11:05, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

unemployment rate of state X

We´ve got a new property - P1198 - which is used to tell the unemployment rate, e.g. of cities or states. There has been a discussion at Wikidata:Property_proposal/Economics#Unemployment_Rate if this property should be added at Q8085 (economy of Austria) or Q40 (Austria). Since there will be lots of such properties in the future and there are hundreds of states and lots of cities, ... a decision is necessary.--Goldzahn (talk) 11:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Not simple, look at WD:DEV#What's the plan for heavy data? -- Lavallen (talk) 17:16, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
If meta:Wikidata/Notes/Inclusion_syntax#Properties_of_different_items would already work, it would be of no importance where to store an information. Maybe doing nothing and wait is the solution? --Goldzahn (talk) 19:43, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikisource interwiki vs. editons in languages

There is some conflict of opinions in Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Q7813). Wikisource pages are interlinked, and wikipedia article was in the same item as wikisource texts [3]. But Another opinion is, that every language is separate edition, so now every single language text is in different item [4].

For readers is better first version, semenically should be better second. It's strange, that I have wp.article and ws.text in different items, when both are about the same thing. JAn Dudík (talk) 14:02, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

This was discussed thoroughly at Wikidata:Books task force, some RFCs here at Wikidata, plus discussions with Wikisource communities, and there are several reasons for this structure. The first one is that if you want to add several statements and qualifiers to those statements that refer to only one edition/translation/version, you need either to have an independent item (easy) or to modify the software structure of Wikidata (hard). An example of this can be seen in Das Tagebuch der Anne Frank (Q14624941), where there is a collaborator that applies to the foreword only. The second reason for this structure is that it allows to use single editions/translations/versions as sources for other statements on Wikidata or Wikipedia. In this case it might not seem very relevant, but some books have many differences between editions (data is different, pagination is different), so it makes sense to be able to reuse a particular edition item without having to enter all the specifics about that item over and over again.--Micru (talk) 15:08, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
The WP-articles describe the subject, while the WS-articles are the subject. -- Lavallen (talk) 17:13, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Yes we did notice that having a separate item for each language edition effectively breaks the Wikisource sitelinks. The proposed fix is to create a wikisource template which links to the parent item (for the novel) which should have links to each language edition item. This has, however, not yet been done. Filceolaire (talk) 13:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Annotation tool that extracts statements from books and feed them on Wikidata

This project as part of GSoC 2014 aims at the idea of a tool, which can annotate statements, break them into subject, object and predicates and then feed them on wikidata as properties and items. It will use a software named Pundit to achieve it. Furthermore there will suggestions to users if the annotations already exist.

Imagine this whole new world of sharing and keeping the notes of what is important, there are many scenarios where this project's valuability can be seen.

Its requested from community that they give their valuable thoughts and idea on polishing the project idea and proposal.

Project Proposal: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Apsdehal

I would like to suggest an additional, very similar use case to the ones you already have - and which might be more actionable: given a statement from Wikidata (or another source), use your suggested tool to mark up a reference and import that reference to Wikidata. This could help with providing references for the millions of statements that currently don't have one. Does this make sense? --Denny (talk) 17:55, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
"statements from books" = Wikiquote (Q369) and / or P387 (P387)? --Kolja21 (talk) 18:34, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Parsing a quotation to turn it into a statement would be nice but humans are actually not bad at doing that. Taking a source URL and automagically getting the other source statements - 'Stated in', Publication date', 'title', 'date retreived' would save time. It might have to know a bit about how google books, BBC News, New York Times etc. work to do this.
next step - start with by highlighting a sentence on a web page and get all the source properties above plus 'source url' and 'quotation'. Filceolaire (talk) 08:57, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Agreeing strongly with Filceolaire, that would be a better seperation between human and computer effort and play to each other's strengths better. --Denny (talk) 17:36, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Heraclitus incorrect sex bug

I noticed that Hericlitus (Q41155) has sex incorrectly set to 'female' - I was going to fix this but noticed that the sex displays as 'male' as soon as you click edit. This means that you are unable to change the sex to male because the save button is greyed out. I'm assuming that setting the sex to 'female', then back to 'male' would fix this but wondered if anyone else has spotted this bug? I thought it best to investigate before trying to change it.NavinoEvans (talk) 11:29, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't experience this bug. For me, it displays the right label and Q-number from the beginning. --YMS (talk) 12:10, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
That's strange. I've checked it again and it still displays incorrectly on my computer (have tried various browsers also). Interestingly, clicking on the 'female' text link does take me to the 'male' Wikidata page so it's definitely just an issue relating to the display of the text. Does anyone else experience the same problem as me? If not I guess it's probably not worth adding it to the bug list. NavinoEvans (talk) 13:38, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Well, what language do you use for your interface? Does male (Q6581097) correctly display as "male" or its equivalent in your language? --YMS (talk) 13:41, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
My interface is in English. Yes, when I click on the link labeled 'female' it takes me to the correct page male (Q6581097) in English. NavinoEvans (talk) 13:47, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Hmm, I can confirm this behaviour for English (but not for my default language German). --YMS (talk) 13:48, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

This is definitely a strange bug. I haven't noticed it on any of the other items I've seen. I've also just checked on my mobile phone and here the label is displaying correctly as 'male'. NavinoEvans (talk) 14:01, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Hey, a simple action=purge did the trick for me. Now I see the label correct as "male" while before it was "female". -- Bene* talk 14:10, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Many thanks for that. I was actually just coming back to say that logging out of Wikidata solved the problem for me. Logging back in again and everything is fine too. NavinoEvans (talk) 14:17, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Ah, so it was a simple cache problem, as though the sex for Hericlitus never was anything else than male, the English label for male (Q6581097) had been vandalized to "female" yesterday (though it was reverted quite fast). --YMS (talk) 14:20, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Such things sometimes stays as a glitch in the matrix, yes. -- Lavallen (talk) 14:32, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

April Fools

I think it's now the time to gain consensus about project practices on April Fools' Day jokes, as there're several joke items and properties created in 2013: Q9192944, Property:P379, Q9193415.

My propose is:

  1. Any fake data mustn't be added to Wikidata item in order to give false infomation on Wikipedia which using data from Wikidata.
  2. If query is supported, it is also not allowed to create joke ite which will be shown as result.
  3. April Fools jokes should stay out of item, property, query space.
  4. Editors who revert non-harmful jokes should be assumed to be acting in good faith and should not be sanctioned as such edits may appear to be vandalism. However, editors should generally avoid reverting jokes that comply with the above rules and are made in the spirit of April Fools' Day.
  5. Vandalism, including inappropriate joke edits, should be treated in the usual manner as vandalism on other days of the year. A vandal should not be blocked immediately simply because the vandalism occurred on April Fools' Day.

--GZWDer (talk) 14:44, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Tuckernuck Island

There are two Tuckernuck Island entries, both clearly relating to the same island: Q4000168 and Q7851110. Q7851110 has more information now; Q4000168 looks more like a stub. Can someone merge? (Could I, if I knew how?) —Scs (talk) 18:29, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

  Merged. There's help on how to merge at Help:Merge. The general idea is to remove the link from one page and add it to the other, then request the empty item for deletion at WD:RfD. There is also a gadget in your preferences that can do this automatically provided you tick the RfD box when you merge. Cheers. Del♉sion23 (talk) 18:37, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

QR-codes and Wikidata

Hi! I'm sorry, I'm not versed in informatics. I would like to ask of relation between QR-codes and Wikidata in the aspect of generating QR-codes: how are QR-codes generated from Wikidata? Are they generated from the label of the Wikidata-element, or from the ID of the element, or...? And what is the relation between generated QR-codes and the language, in that can be read information after decoding QR-codes. I don't understand this exactly. There is a dawning QR-project in Hungarian Wikipedia, and I would like to understand this better, because maybe this will have an affect on naming articles (and also Wikidata-elements). Could you help me in asking these questions? Thanks in advance, --Sphenodon (talk) 22:18, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Whan you say QR-codes I assume you mean QRpedia (Q2182). This was developed before wikidata using en wikipedia (I believe) as the central source of language links. Development halted last year while ownership was transferred from the inventors to wikimedia UK. This transfer has now happened and WMUK plan to do some development and wikidata integration is, I believe, part of their plan. I'm pretty sure they will make sure they don't break existing QRpedia codes so you should be able to just get a QR code from http://qrpedia.org/ and use it. Filceolaire (talk) 01:36, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I meant QRpedia. Thank you for your answer! :) --Sphenodon (talk) 20:58, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Is there any intention to migrate QRpedia codes from their current basis (the entry point being a topic name in a convenient human-readable local Wikipedia) to using Wikidata and the non-human-readable Q-code as the entry point? This has obvious attractions – it would allow shorter QR codes – but it would also IMHO be a very bad move to lose the human-readability of a text string for access for the impenetrable Q-code. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:37, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Topics that change over time?

How is Wikidata addressing these?

Does Wikidata link Wikipedia articles, or external concepts?

Simple example: Chepstow Railway Bridge. d:Q5091736 Built in 1852 by Brunel, rebuilt in 1962. There are two bridges to describe here. Now obviously the primary goal of Wikidata is to link the WP articles, so the first taxon to be stored should be for a historical article on "The history of Chepstow Railway Bridge" (which is what we have). However if the data model of Wikidata expands and becomes more sophisticated, it also needs to address the issue of the two bridges. For properties like construction date, designer and type of bridge, these have all changed between the two bridges. They're valuable properties to store, but we need to also represent the identity of the nodes (Article on history, physical bridge #1, physical bridge #2) before we can do so.

What's the plan for Wikidata to address this? Andy Dingley (talk) 11:47, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

If they are two separate entities, then we should create an item for each. There doesn't have to be a wikipedia article for an item. Books are already being done along these lines, with each edition being created as an item, e.g. Autobiografia di Alice Toklas (translation) (Q15741500) is an edition of The Autobiography of Alice B. Toklas (Q6618986).

Also, you say "primary goal of Wikidata is to link the WP articles", but this isn't the primary goal of Wikidata. The objective is to create a knowledge base. The interlinking of wikipedia articles was just chosen as the first phase. It's not the final destination. Danrok (talk) 12:33, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Scopus links

How do we add links for Scopus author ID (P1153) and Scopus EID (P1154) (see links on talk of each). The Scopus affiliation ID (P1155) links were never publicly accessible (to my knowledge), but it appears that after their recent upgrade Scopus source ID (P1156) links now require a login also. John Vandenberg (talk) 01:03, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I am interested in the Scopus source ID. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 07:30, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
The source list is available at http://www.info.sciverse.com/documents/files/scopus-training/resourcelibrary/xls/title_list.xlsx , and remixed in many ways across the web. See Wikidata:Property proposal/Archive/19#P1156, etc. John Vandenberg (talk) 09:20, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
I was opposed of Scopus author ID (P1153). The argument for creating this property was: Some of the infos are free. The property was created Feb. 21. Now, March 6, we have to pay. We need a guideline for paid links. --Kolja21 (talk) 15:25, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Persons claimed as citizens of a state which did not exist at that time

Just one example here: People claimed as UK citizens, but died before the UK existed.

The United Kingdom (Q145) has only existed since 1800, and was preceded by Kingdom of Great Britain (Q161885).

I can imagine there are other similar situations and errors with other countries! Danrok (talk) 02:03, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

I do not know exactly this case, but I have serious doubts about some of these "historical states"-items. I do not consider "Swedish Empire (Q215443)" to be a state different from Q34, but rather an item about the "history of Sweden (Q34)" i.e. 1611-1721. Otherwise a lot of claims related to Q34 have to be changed to Sweden 1968-1991. -- Lavallen (talk) 13:37, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
The french WP defines a list of historical states for each country as function of the time:w:fr:Aide:Modèle_pays_et_drapeau for the use of flags. This can be a solution but in that case we have to define which period of the life of the person should be alayzed to define its origin: a guy born 1910 in Berlin and died in 2000 got at least 4 different passports. Snipre (talk) 13:46, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
How can country of citizenship (P27) be applied to a person who lived in Sweden the 17:th century, before the concept of citizenship was introduced? /ℇsquilo 13:56, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikidata schema or ontology?

Excuse me if this is a stupid question, but I can't find it for looking.

Where's the schema / ontology for Wikidata? What format is it expressed in? Thanks Andy Dingley (talk) 11:39, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

It is at http://www.wikidata.org/ontology and it is (obviously) incomplete, just as the export is. It is in OWL expressed in RDF/XML. --Denny (talk) 20:46, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I've seen that one but it's really just the data model (and only part of it) rather than a schema or ontology. Wikidata seems to be using the term "vocabulary" (which isn't the right term) to describe its property model, but I can't find a description of that either. I understand that the property model is goign to be dynamic, but there are aspects like value typing, scalar dimensions and units, collections and sets etc. that will be long-term stable and these ought to be expressed through something OWL-like. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:34, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Every property is exported in RDF/XML (although, as well, still incomplete - contributions would be welcome here, too). JSON, XML, and the other formats already include the complete data, though, just the RDF/XML mapping is incompletele implemented as of now. Here is an example: http://www.wikidata.org/entity/P6 . If you add .rdf you will get the RDF/XML file, if you add .json you will get the JSON file. All is exposed using Linked Data standards. The ontology in your sense is then the set of all the properties in Wikidata, I guess, plus the data model. --Denny (talk) 18:17, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Correct error (+/-) for a quantity accurate to nearest 500?

I want to add 'attendance' (Property:P1110) to the FA Cup final match items. It appears that all of the figures are accurate to the nearest 500 people for the earlier matches, but I can't find the actual error listed anywhere. I'm presuming that I should use +/- 250 for the error on each attendance figure. Does this sound correct? NavinoEvans (talk) 01:12, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

If the numbers are rounded to the nearest 500, then you need to use +/- 500, not +/- 250. Danrok (talk) 01:50, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Ok I see. So the +/- value is more like a 'least count uncertainty' than an 'upper and lower bound'?. I couldn't find any information on this in any of the guidelines. Do you know if it's written anywhere? I think it would be a good thing to have explicitly described so that there is a consistent use. Regards, NavinoEvans (talk) 11:38, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Links namespaces validation

Do we validate links namespaces? For example I noticed Commons categories and Creator templates in content items Commons links. Same should be done for categories, templates, portals, etc items. --EugeneZelenko (talk) 15:03, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

help request (whipped cream vs. Chantilly cream)

When I try to add w:en:Chantilly cream, which is a redirect to w:en:whipped cream, to Q6384329 I get the error

Site link Whipped cream is already used by item Q625957. Perhaps the items should be merged and one of them deleted? Request deletion of one of the items at Wikidata:Requests for deletion, or ask at Wikidata:Interwiki conflicts if you believe that they should not be merged.

Chantilly cream and whipped cream are both covered in a single article on the English Wikipedia.

There is discussion at w:en:Talk:Whipped_cream#Language_links_and_whipped_cream and w:en:User_talk:Rybec#Whipped_cream. 24.24.213.60 01:51, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Delete the redirection of w:en:Chantilly cream to w:en:whipped cream, create the link to wikidata and create again the redirection w:en:Chantilly cream to w:en:whipped cream. This is the simpliest way without any need of discussion to solve your problem.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.6.11.14 (talk • contribs).
If the page doesn't exist, Wikidata won't let it be added. In addition, I'm not sure redirects are supposed to be in Wikidata interwiki links. --Auntof6 (talk) 16:51, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Temporarily remove the redirect from the WP page, link the page to Wikidata, then put back the redirect again. This has been a long-lasting discussion. - LaddΩ chat ;) 22:17, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikidata pages entry

Please comment on Add Wikidata pages entry RfC! --Rezonansowy (talk) 22:27, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

rank related changes

Hey everyone,

Since some time now ranks are available. They are meant as a way to help manage the vast amount of information in Wikidata and make sense of them. One important point is to be able to "hide" old and wrong information using the normal and deprecated ranks. This allows us to for example only show the current leader of a country when asked for it instead of all the ones that have had this title at some point in the past. We want to move forward with making use of this now. This means a few things in particular:

  • The property parser function will be changed to only return preferred values if they are available. If none are available then the normal ones will be returned.
  • Lua will be adapted to also by default only return preferred values if available and otherwise normal values.
  • Simple queries (like "give me the item with ISBN 12345678) will only return items with the value marked as preferred if available and otherwise normal values.
  • Complex queries will only return items with the values marked as preferred (and if not available normal) initially. Later all can be searched for explicitly as well but by default still only items with the values marked as preferred (and if not available normal) will be returned.

This in essence means that people will need to start marking values as preferred and deprecated where appropriate. This change will happen within the next weeks. I don't yet know exactly when the code change will be ready.

Onwards to a Wikidata that can meaningfully work with historical information \o/

Cheers --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 14:30, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

@Lydia Pintscher (WMDE): Perhaps it is good to mention the programming selection in help:Ranking. Snipre (talk) 15:59, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Yes we should do that. But probably only when the changes are made? --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 17:42, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
@Lydia Pintscher (WMDE): No problem, this is just to mention to the developpers that they are the right persons to explain how the system will work. Snipre (talk) 13:44, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Three ranks does not sound like a lot, to express differences as they exist in reality. This will, hypothetically, lead to cases of ten data points being expressed in three times preferred rank, five times normal rank, two times deprecated rank. - Brya (talk) 06:33, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
It is correct that such cases will appear. But Wikidata will never be able to model the real world exactly. We have to make a tradeoff to make Wikidata useful/usable. And I'd say this is a fair one to make not causing major issues since it will be very rare and even if the consequences are fine. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 09:15, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Do you have any recomdations regarding something like this building. It is located in two parishes, two civil parishes, two municipalities, two counties, two provinces, two lands. So, nomatter what level of administrative division I use, it's always located in more than one entity. Are we supposed to use preferred in two statements, or how are we supposed to use P131 and ranks in those cases? -- Lavallen (talk) 12:35, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Yes it is perfectly fine to have several values with the same rank if that is what is actually happening in the real world. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 12:52, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Module test cases (2)

Please comment on Module test cases (2) - Inclusion criteria --ValterVB (talk) 21:29, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Vojaĝo en Esperanto-lando – אַ נסיעה אין עספּעראַנטאָ-לאַנד

Hi! Working on http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/test/?lang=en&find=Boris+Kolker and http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/test/?lang=en&q=12356614 I wondered why the properties P357 (P357) and P392 (P392) are not configured as other properties: There is one value for all languages.
Please feel free to comment on any issue including the reasonator issues. Thanks in advance! לערי ריינהארט (talk) 17:56, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Title = Original title. For the translation use lable. --Kolja21 (talk) 20:29, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
@Kolja21 What kind of "kindergarten" kindergarten (Q126807) is this here? Wikidata:Requests_for_deletions/Archive/2014/03/06#Q15894544 is an instant deletion without any notice and without any deadline. Do you really think that this is the only "Esperanto reader"? Can you please take care to undelete this item if you are an expert on Esperanto. Did you not learn to use book marks if you need to correct or discuss something? לערי ריינהארט (talk) 12:34, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Nobody said there is only one Esperanto reader. There a hundreds of readers for all kind of languages and subjects. Please read RfD: Redundant: The item that was linked had already the info "textbook/reader" (genre) and "Esperanto" (language and subject heading). --Kolja21 (talk) 15:28, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

First I want to thank you for the additions and guidance. I created the pages after midnight and did not enter all available information. From OCLC all editions one can see that there are revisions of the work. These revisions are one of the explanation why main subject (P921) differ between the listed OCLC's. Two are most outstanding:

https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/66398949 mentionig the editor which is confirmwed at eo:Viktor Aroloviĉ.
The other is https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/500294375 specifying different "Subjects": these are here "Esperanto -- Textbooks for foreign speakers.", "Esperanto -- Readers.", "Esperantists -- Social life and customs. View all subjects".

Conclusion with revisions of a work the subjects might change. How this should be handeled?
I understand that you deleted some subjects (because your personal view differs). But you did not asked to delete the two other Wikidata pages. Q15894544 is not a redundant "concept". It happened that no WMF language has an article (as detailed article or as a list) about it. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 14:04, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

P.S. LoC is back again. The 1st edition has the subject Esperanto--Readers http://lccn.loc.gov/97175755 at LOC also the revised 3rd edition see http://lccn.loc.gov/2007362074 . Eaven skiled users and visitors can make advanced queries newbies can not. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 14:15, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
P.P.S. It happened in the past that you marked RfD's with @ notifications, some with doubtful notes. I do not understand why you (and other contributors) do not use the notifications. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 14:15, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
@לערי ריינהארט: You might notice: "Esperanto--Readers" has two dashes. The LoC calls it "Subjects" (Schlagwortreihe). main subject (P921) is a single term. --Kolja21 (talk) 20:30, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
It is irrtating because OCLC and LoC are using both multiple lines and "lists" / "combinations". The work of B. K. has only one "subject heading" (in singular). לערי ריינהארט (talk) 20:48, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

If original title is unique what about birth names?

Hi! Sholem Aleichem (Q238090) is a pseudonym. The birth name is using Cyrillic script. Here a translation / transliteration is allowed. The name of the properties title and subtiles should be changed to indicate that only the otiginal language is asllowed. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 22:26, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

You confuse different things. A pseudonym is not a transliteration and a (book) title is not a the same as the name of a person. A label of an item is multilingual, the property "title" has a data type called "string", "that don't need to be translated into different languages" (Help:Data type). --Kolja21 (talk) 23:50, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

date for Wikiquote getting language links via Wikidata

Hey :)

As planned Wikiquote will be the next sister project supported by Wikidata. We're starting with language links again and will later enable data access. I've currently scheduled the first part for April 8th. Depending on how that goes I will schedule the second part. Coordination is happening at Wikidata:Wikiquote and it'd be awesome if you added your name there if you're active on Wikiquote. We need people to act as local ambassadors to make sure everything goes smoothly.

I'm excited about getting our next sister project in!


Cheers --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 21:59, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry to be a killjoy but is there a date for the realease of the datatype number with unit, the datatype monolingual or the access to a an element from another element's article ? I have to say that connecting sister projects is not the main objective of wikidata according to my opinion. Snipre (talk) 10:27, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't have dates for those yet, sorry. We've been concentrating on making items load faster which I'm sure you understand is more important than adding more features at the moment. Adding this additional sister project is a configuration change that does not take much time as opposed to adding more datatypes or arbitrary access. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 11:15, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Don't worry it is just to be sure that these feature are still in the "under development" panel. Snipre (talk) 16:27, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
They are :) --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 17:14, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
@Snipre: it's routine for them now ... one more one less won't make any change, and this proved to be useful. There is so much to do in Wikidata anyway :) TomT0m (talk) 11:29, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
There is no "them" ;-) We're all in this together! --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 18:08, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
I guess we already has included projects with very little activity, and with q:, it will be even more such projects. Does anybody have any experience of that problem? -- Lavallen (talk) 11:20, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
@Lavallen: Small communities benefit more from Wikidata, since it takes care of maintenance work and redundant data synchronization, which leaves more time to work on their project.--Micru (talk) 13:05, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
One problem I see, is that there are a lot of items here who do not have any label in minor languages. I thought of trying to use the information we have about Southafrican municipalities here and add that to articles on my homewiki. But since these articles do not have any label, is there still a lot of work to do. Even such a thing as "City of Cape Town" isn't easy to find a label for. And how do I translate "metropolitan municipality"? The English article about en:metropolitan municipality take en:Metropolitan Stockholm as an example, but it's not a comparable term in this case. Metropolitan Stockholm can be two things, first a statistic entity defined by Statistics Sweden or Eurostat or secondly an organised cooperation between a number of municipalities around Stockholm. The metropolitan municipalities in SAR are neither of these. So, less work, only partly... -- Lavallen (talk) 13:30, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Doubt: property position held (P39)

Hi everyone! I don't know if this is the best place to ask, but... Well, I'm gonna talk about ministers. In Wikipedia we have articles for the the Ministry (as institution), (Ministry of Defence of Spain (Q3181026) as example), we have list of ministers of Defence (this -> list of Ministers of Defense of Spain (Q6354361)), but we haven't any article for the position, in singular, "Minister of Defence". In these cases... must we create a new item called «Minister of Defence (Description: Minister of Spain or something similar)»? Or shall we assign a "list-item" (in Spanish Wikipedia "Anexo") to P39 property?--Totemkin (talk) 15:20, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Don't create an element for each minister of defence for each country: the spanish exeample is not a good one. But here the situation is not clear and there is no policy for this kind of problem. We know it from the case of mayors: we can't have an lement of each mayor, but instead a general "mayor" element and the place is defined as qualifier. Snipre (talk) 15:56, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm for the <minister of defense of X> items to be used with the office held property. TomT0m (talk) 16:19, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Well, see.
  • In the case of mayors I understand it's not appropiated to create an item for each municipality (there are circa 8000 in Spain, as example) mayor of Madrid, mayor of Calatañazor, mayor of... mayor of each of the 8000 municipalities in Spain...   hell no! Item: mayor, qualifier "place/lugar/event location/whatever!" -> "municipality X678e"   yes?
  • Example: Alfredo Pérez Rubalcaba (Q333638) How should I tag this person? He has been "Minister of the Interior" (2006-2011), Minister of Education and Science (1992-1193) and Minister of Presidence (1993-1996), between others.
Should I create a property for "Minister of Education and Science" (Description: all over the world)? There are Ministries very specific of each country. As example, since 1788, ministers of Defence (in Spain) have taken a lot of official names: "ministro de Defensa" (minister of Defence), "ministro de Defensa Nacional (minister of National Defence), "ministro del Ejército", "ministro del Aire", "ministro de la Guerra", "secretario del Despacho de Guerra",... I think individual items should be created for each ministry denomination in each country.Totemkin (talk) 16:52, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I see no problem, it's trivial for a bot to create those items. TomT0m (talk)
I would propose something in between: First, start with an world-wide item "minister of defence". Same for majors. Contrary to mayors, the scope of ministries changes and, accordingly, also their name. I you "later" want to add this to the basic model, create an item "ministro de Defensa" for all ministers with this name and just set "ministro de Defensa" subclass of (P279) world-wide "minister of defence". See that this might not be necessary for majors. Moreover, the model detail can adapt with the added information.  — Felix Reimann (talk) 17:52, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Well, in Sweden, the scope of Mayors changes in time. There is more often two or three mayors (kommunalråd) in one municipality than there is only one. (Stockholm has 12.) They have different responsibilities or are representing the minority. -- Lavallen (talk) 18:13, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I find Felix Reinman's proposal reasonable, but I see some red flags. As far I can see is not always easy to classify subclasses of Ministries under a "global umbrella". For example, in Spain (I suppose it could be similar in other countries):
  • "Ministerio Trabajo y Asuntos Sociales" (Ministry of Employment and Social Issues) splitted in 2008 into three different ministries: "Ministerio de Igualdad" (Ministry of Parity (between men and women...)) + "Ministerio de Trabajo e Inmigración" (Ministry of Employment and Inmigration) + "Ministerio de Educación, Política Social y Deporte (2008-2009)" (Ministry of Education, Social Politics and Sport)
  • In these cases I found difficult assigning a "main-minister-item" to each ministry. Sure there are always "Ministry of Defense", "Ministry of Economy" or "Ministry of Foreign Affairs" in almost all countries, but there are others, well... more specific for each country or that they could belong to several "world-wide-item-Ministries" at the same time, we could say. And that's a fact that there are already items/Q's for each "Ministry of" in Spain (and I suppose in other countries), so we would only duplicate them with the correspondent "minister of"-item (position held).Totemkin (talk) 20:20, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Well, a title is only a title, what I think is more interesting is what they do. We have no "Minister of Space" in Sweden, have never existed such a title, but there has since long existed somebody in the government whó have had that as a responsibility. Sometimes it has been the minister of education, other times the minister of commerce. That look more interesting to know, than somebodys title. -- Lavallen (talk) 15:09, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Well, according this then we'll have to reach "international consensus" in Wikidata in order to establish some "world-wide-Ministries" (strange concept, I think) and when we find cases like Ministerio de Educación, Política Social y Deporte, we'll have to define them as subclasses of "Ministry of Education", "Ministry of ¿Society?" and "Ministry of Sport". Or saying he (the minister) was three sorts of Minister at the same time. I find that certainly troublesome. I think each individual denomination merits one "Q". Of course, I think we could specify Minister tasks by means of properties in each particular "item-title". Totemkin (talk) 17:03, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Yes we should have an item for 'minister of Defence of Spain' but this wikidata item should have a sitelink to the Wikipedia article 'List of Ministers of Defence of Spain'.
The 'Minister of Defence of Spain' item would have the statement 'subclass of:Minister of Defence' and 'Subclass of: Spanish Cabinet Ministers'. It would not have the statement 'instance of:Wikimedia list' because the wikidata item is not a list; it is a class that just happens to have a sitelink to a WP article called 'list of....'
You do not start with some global class of Defence Ministers. You always start from the bottom with the actual politicians and from there you build upwards, using 'subclass of' to link to ever more general classes.
For Mayors you can have the statement 'office held:Mayor' with qualifier 'of:Municipality of Foo' with date qualifiers too. That way a query on Wikidata can list the Mayors of Foo even if there is no wikidata item or wikipedia article on this office separate from the items and articles on the municipality. Filceolaire (talk) 20:17, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
For mayors we also have the inverse property head of government (P6), so every municipality can have its list of mayor directly at the item, no need to collect that data from all the mayor items. Ahoerstemeier (talk) 21:59, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
But what if a municipality have two (or more) mayors (at the same time) and they do not have the same title? -- Lavallen (talk) 16:10, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Translation issue: who to ask?

I made changes to Wikidata:Property proposal/Proposal preload but language-specific versions such as Wikidata:Property proposal/Proposal preload/en or Wikidata:Property proposal/Proposal preload/fr are still using the previous version as their translation base. I could not locate any WD page indicating how to get help on translation. Can anyone indicate where to post such requests? thanks - LaddΩ chat ;) 23:56, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi, the page has to be marked for translation by a translation admin. You can post such request on the Wikidata:Translators' noticeboard. However there are some strange changes like the removal of the coordinates datatype. -- Bene* talk 08:36, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Oops, fixed that. Thanks for the info. LaddΩ chat ;) 17:28, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Committee member of ...

What should we do with the new items:

Universal Esperanto Association committee member (Q15391460) and
committee member of TEJO (Q15846479)?

Looks like a separate classification system established by a single user. The only info given is P31: "title of authority". AFAIK a committee that is notable should 1) get it's own item. 2) The item "Committee XY" can then be used with properties like member of (P463). --Kolja21 (talk) 14:55, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

The properties have been crated to avoid future conflicts from semantic point of view. As a title of authority they allow to add qualifies. Beside this they allow newbies to work on missing properties such as academic career etc. לערי ריינהארט (talk) 13:19, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Don't worry about the future semantic point of view. Right now, in the year 2014, there is no reason given why UEA and TEJO committee members are more important than the Committee members of AUE and TEGO. You are creating your own systematic and not even take the time to link these items to whatever UEA, TEJO stands for. --Kolja21 (talk) 04:52, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Notability for links

Hi. As the current notability policy forbids data items without a interwiki link, I ask if a data item could be created so that a property on another page can be linked to the new data item (such as the creation of Charles Howard Edmondson (Q15922469)). Thanks, Ebe123 (talk) 01:59, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

The notability policy does not forbid data items without an interwiki link. Please read criterion number three of the policy. --Yair rand (talk) 02:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Blocking IP adresses

An administrator abused his power to block my previous address (it's dynamic). What's the policy? To me it seems a kind of censorship we should not want. It scares possible new users who see they are blocked and have certainly no idea why. 151.40.183.151 14:25, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Hello, our blocking guideline is at Wikidata:Blocking policy. Additionally, without further information, we won't be able to investigate this.  Hazard SJ  14:48, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
This is the IP definitely seems like a block followed by appropriate warnings and is in place to prevent xwiki issues surrounding a user. I see no issue with the way the administrator acted. John F. Lewis (talk) 14:51, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Correct, John! Whatever (invented) rules I may have broken using my account for me may in my opinion never be an argument to ban everyone who is &mdash temporary in this case since it's dynamic — using that IP-address. Suppose it was a public place then you ban locals as well as tourists from the entire world for completely unclear reasons. I asked the blocking admin for an explanation referring to what happened to me some years ago on Dutch Wikipedia, because a colleague – or his bot – did the same thing even worse. He blocked a complete IP-range, banning thousands of Italians, expats in Italy as well as tourists from "his" Wikipedia damaging the freedom of changing by censoring. I don't think we as a community want this. Kind regards from Tuscany, 151.40.249.210 07:30, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

List of Wikipedia articles with not item on Wikidata

I saw this list sometimes ago, but I can't find where... Could you help me please? Thanks. — Ayack (talk) 15:39, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Try w:Special:UnconnectedPages. --Jakob (talk) 16:08, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Perfect, thanks! — Ayack (talk) 16:13, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
You're welcome. --Jakob (talk) 17:44, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Please give input for the Wikidata user interface redesign

Hey everyone :)

We're getting started on the redesign of the user interface of Wikidata now. As a first step we're gathering a lot of input on the current user interface until the end of the month. It'd be great to get your ideas on what you think is working well and what is not. Please leave your comments on Wikidata:UI redesign input.  – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk • contribs).

Adding comment with timestampso this section is archived at some point. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 12:01, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Extension:GuidedTours

Hi all, I would like to propose that mw:Extension:GuidedTour gets enabled on Wikidata because in my opinion it would be a great benefit to have such tours. Our user interface has become quite difficult to understand and I want to create some tours to simplify the introduction to Wikidata. With such tours we could get lots of new editors who don't understand at the moment how Wikidata works exactly. To enable the extension, community consensus is needed, so this discussion will be open for at least one week and if there aren't any objections I will request to enable the extension on this wiki. Best regards, -- Bene* talk 19:16, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

If it is stable enough to use, then definitely! Ajraddatz (Talk) 20:06, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm in favour of this. Filceolaire (talk) 20:21, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Good idea. --ValterVB (talk) 20:28, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Very good idea. Tpt (talk) 20:30, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Very good idea if possible.--GZWDer (talk) 05:39, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Sure, why not. --Rschen7754 06:17, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm new here, but I'm hosting a hackathon in April, introducing a ton of people to Wikidata, and I think this would be useful for them. I'm assuming we could customize this for Wikidata-specific functions. Harej (talk) 06:40, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Go for it! --Ainali (talk) 06:49, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Good idea TomT0m (talk) 09:13, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
+1 --Goldzahn (talk) 09:43, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Sure. --Stryn (talk) 10:52, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Nice idea and will be of help for non-regulars, if it is well integrated with the interface. I hear even from experienced Wikimedians that they get lost what to do on Wikidata. whym (talk) 13:52, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
I am in favor of enabling GuidedTours on wikidata.--Snaevar (talk) 14:45, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
This is a very good idea and will help new comers to have a better understanding on contributing.--Sandaru (talk) 03:56, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Reading the above discussion - there seems to be consensus for enabling it. Filed bugzilla:62654 and assigned to myself. Will   do. John F. Lewis (talk) 18:48, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
And was deployed earlier today by Hoo John F. Lewis (talk) 17:35, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Content (ideas)

The tour has to mentions some tools of the ecosystem, especially {{Reasonator}} (he tool, not the template) ! TomT0m (talk)

I feel like it's not the most important thing for new editors who wants to know how Wikidata works. --Stryn (talk) 10:53, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
It's a trivial thing to do, a one liner in the tutorial, and it's interesting for everyone as Reasonator is way better at displaying information and even have some limited but efficient ways of editing Wikidata. It's order of magnitudes better than Wikidata at these tasks, so it's a good way of navigating in Wikidata and show the Wikidata page only when we have to edit it. It's a Win for everyone. Tools like autolists proved to be very powerfools to edit the database on several items at once, they are really important to show in a tutorial. TomT0m (talk) 11:20, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
It is a lot of work setting up a guided tour. If anyone has a proposal for developing content and needs support then consider starting a conversation at meta:Grants:IdeaLab, which is a channel for sharing ideas, soliciting for Wikimedia Foundation staff support, and requesting funding to do projects with community backing. Projects will be reviewed for funding this round beginning 1 April. It would be great to have the Wikidata community have presence in this space. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:13, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
We will hopefully have someone work on it as part of the outreach program for women. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 15:27, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Internationalisation

Last time I looked into this (when we enabled GuideTours on Wikimedia Commons), it was complicated to have proper internationalisation for GuidedTours − I think it is not possible for on-wiki tours, and I am not sure how it was to be done for extension tours. Just something to keep in mind. :-) Jean-Frédéric (talk) 18:29, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Althought English is in favour at the moment, we will also have to take care of how to translate the tours. However, I think we can solve this problem, too. -- Bene* talk 21:08, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Very good Bene*, in my opinion guided tours in multilingual project in only one language wouldn't be nice ;) --KuboF (talk) 16:26, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Structure for prizes/awards

After a workshop on Female Nobel Prize Winners we realised that there seemed to be two separate structures going on:

award received (P166): Nobel Peace Prize (Q35637)
point in time (P585): 2011

and

award received (P166): 2011 Nobel Peace Prize (Q4622018) (these objects only exist for a few of the years).

Additionally there might also be some which follow a scheme like thet for the Ignobel prize

award received (P166): Nobel Prize (Q7191)
field of work (P101): peace (Q454) (or some similar property)
point in time (P585): 2011.

My question, in short is which of the structures would be the recommended one? Guessing there might have been similar discussions for Olympics etc. /Lokal Profil (talk) 11:11, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

The first one is better because it use less qualifier. But Before any generalization be sure that we have an element for each kind of nobel prize. 141.6.11.17 12:13, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
As long specialised items like 2011 Nobel Peace Prize (Q4622018) contains the field of work (P101): peace (Q454), point in time (P585): 2011-statements (or simlair), then both methods can be used. -- Lavallen (talk) 12:27, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that's a correct use of field of work (P101). --—Wylve (talk) 14:34, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't think either of the uses (as a qualifier or as a property for awards) are correct uses of field of work (P101). --Yair rand (talk) 21:01, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
@Lavallen: I'm in favor of more regularities in the datas. I'm for "always the first solution", it's easier to find later and will make simpler code and queries later. TomT0m (talk) 19:19, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
@Yair rand: But the properties in the item about "Nobel Peace Price 2011" have to tell that it is related to "Nobel", "Peace" and "2011"! If somebody sets up an item about "Weird Al Yankovic's price for most creative use of a cupholder 2009", we normally have no article to connect that item with. To be able to understand what Qrandom_number means in the client, we need relations to "Weird Al Yankovic", "Cupholder" and "2009". -- Lavallen (talk) 06:29, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
I recommend 2011 Nobel Peace Prize (Q4622018) and such where the items exist. These items should have statements associating them with Nobel Peace Prize (Q35637) which in turn has a statement associating it with Nobel Prize (Q7191). point in time (P585) is necessary, even when the year is mentioned in the label of the prize's item. --Yair rand (talk) 21:01, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
I would go with :award received (P166): Nobel Peace Prize (Q35637) with point in time (P585): 2011 Filceolaire (talk) 16:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
+1 with Filceolaire Keep the data searchable: by mixing the date with the event it becomes impossible to perform a search by year. Snipre (talk) 17:58, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
That would only be the case if the date were omitted. Using the more specific item doesn't mean that the point in time (P585) is no longer necessary. --Yair rand (talk) 19:23, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
But it means you can't do a search on the simple Nobel Peace Prize (Q35637) item plus the year - you have to do a search accross the various Peace prize year items. Filceolaire (talk) 07:01, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
No, you can search entities which are instance of (P31) the relevant prize. As a general rule, it would probably be even better to do searches also on items which are subclass of (P279) (or a chain of multiple subclass of (P279)s) the prize as well. --Yair rand (talk) 04:55, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
For Olympics and other sporting events I would go with 'participated in:2014 Winter Olympics' with qualifiers 'sport:downhill slalom', 'time:5min 3 sec', 'place:gold medal' We will need some new properties for that. Filceolaire (talk) 16:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
I would add the point in time (P585): 2014 in order to always have the possibility to perform time query. Snipre (talk) 17:58, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

fwiw, I have a bot request to populate this data for the ongoing Paralympics. Wikidata:Requests for permissions/Bot/MedalBot. I am happy to follow the consensus of this discussion (and fix all existing items which dont follow the agreed upon structure). For sports events, it would be nice to include a link to the item which represents the deepest node of the 'Wikipedia' tree. e.g. The award on Henrieta Farkašová (Q5715883) should link to alpine skiing at the 2010 Winter Paralympics – women's super-G (Q4735586) - Q4735586 is useless for most data queries, and the depth in Wikipedia is different for World Competitions vs O/Paralympics vs other competitions, but it is the node which will contain the most useful prose about the award granted, and it is the link found in the infobox on en:Henrieta Farkašová. John Vandenberg (talk) 22:53, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Ok what I take from this is that there is no clear answer as to whether award received (P166): Nobel Peace Prize (Q35637) - point in time (P585): 2011 or award received (P166): 2011 Nobel Peace Prize (Q4622018) should be used. If the second is used though then it should be ensured that 2011 Nobel Peace Prize (Q4622018) in itself has instance of (P31): Nobel Peace Prize (Q35637) - point in time (P585): 2011 (or possibly an alternative to P31).
field of work (P101) is a sidetrack in this case. I only used it as an example since it was used for some of the people awarded the ig-nobel prize. /André Costa (WMSE) (talk) 09:59, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Category namespace

As far as I know this project does not havee a namespace called Category. Is it possible to create one? Greetings and salutations, 151.40.249.210 07:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC) (KlaasV)

There is a category namespace here: see Special:AllPages/Category:. --Jakob (talk) 12:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Seems they are all administrative. I mean categories like we have in Wikipedia and (nearly?) all other projects of Wikimedia, e.g. Wikidata:Category:Borough of New York etc. 151.40.249.210 12:35, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Why? What would you use it for? The proposal is for Wikidata to have a 'Query' namespace which will provide most of the functionality you are probably looking for but this is still under development. 86.6.107.229 13:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Category:Boroughs of New York City (Q8307446)? Multichill (talk) 22:20, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Potentially useful database with uncertain copyright status

I've found this database, seems like it could be quite useful. It claims that it's copyrighted (see the bottom of the page), but it also claims that the data is taken from National Bridge Inventory (Q6971123), which was compiled by Federal Highway Administration (Q800112), which is a division of the United States government and should thus be in public domain. Hopefully someone here knows what to make of this... --Jakob (talk) 17:50, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Don't use this website to source data but directly the Federal Highway Administration (Q800112) database. Snipre (talk) 09:19, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
@Snipre: The original data is not exactly readable (example). --Jakob (talk) 11:54, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
@Jakec: Just use the manual (see here) to extract the informations. This is a good example for bot work: just identify the existing birdge articles in wp and link each article with the ID in the database and after defining the data extraction code, it is possible to extract and directly import in wikidata everything. That's typically the main objective of wikidata through its machine readable structure. Snipre (talk) 18:18, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

Infobox mappings

I created this collection of infobox mappings mostly for users of the harvest_template script, but others might find the pairings of properties/parameters useful for other kinds of bots as well. An example: death_cause P509 for Template:Infobox person (Q6249834). There aren't many of them yet but I plan to add more in the coming days.--Underlying lk (talk) 08:27, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

New RFC: Organizing statements, sitelinks, and external identifiers

I have started a Request for Comments on how to organize statements, sitelinks, and external identifiers. Hopefully the feedback gathered can help with the UI redesign.--Micru (talk) 12:12, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Obama is not African American?

I'm adding a link to the talk page of Barack Obama (Q76) here since this is one of the showcase items: some time during the last few weeks, the ethnic group (P172) of Obama was changed from 'African-American' to 'Irish American' and 'Luo people of Kenya and Tanzania'.--Underlying lk (talk) 21:51, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Removed the second. The first is interesting; the source does say that Barrack Obama's great-great-great-great grandfather was Irish. That could remain there, but African American should be added with a higher ranking. Ajraddatz (Talk) 21:54, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
He does not have Afro American ethnicity. Afro American are a specific group descended from africans and europeans and living in the USA since before the civil war. Michelle Obama and her family are Afro Americans. Barack Obama has very little connection with this group.
  • Neither of his parents are from this ethnicity.
  • He was not brought up nor attended school in an Afro American area (First he lived in Indonesia, then in Hawaii with his white mother and grandmother).
The Irish American ethnicity is sourced. The Luo ethnicity is well established for his father. His effort to establish a connection with his family in africa (described in his book 'Dreams of my Father') could support this. The only support for calling him Afro American seems to be the habit in the USA of applying this label to anyone who looks a bit black and the fact that he lived in an Afro American area of chicago after graduating from Harvard Filceolaire (talk) 01:04, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Just checked the talk page of Barack Obama (Q76) and I see Underlying Ik has a source for Obama self identifying as Afro American so I accept that that is a good source for ethnicity. Source added to the statement. Marked 'preferred'. Filceolaire (talk) 01:14, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the insight. Could you find any source for the Luo ethnicity? If they exist then that could definitely be there at a normal rank. Ajraddatz (Talk) 01:31, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm sure I could get a source for his fathers ethnicity but I think I would have to get hold of 'Dreams of my Father' to get a source that Pres. Obama sees himself as a Luo. Maybe some day. Filceolaire (talk) 10:17, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
We can also find sources that states that Obama is the antechrist. This whole topic seems weird to me as a frech citizen :) TomT0m (talk) 20:02, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Is there a source supporting the requirement that Afro-Americans be descended from people living in the USA before the civil war? English Wiktionary defines the term as "A native or resident of the United States (an American) who is of African heritage," and the en:WP article has similar wording, notwithstanding the article's correct emphasis on the long history of African Americans. Peter Chastain (talk) 01:32, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Proposed optional changes to Terms of Use amendment

Hello all, in response to some community comments in the discussion on the amendment to the Terms of Use on undisclosed paid editing, we have prepared two optional changes. Please read about these optional changes on Meta wiki and share your comments. If you can (and this is a non english project), please translate this announcement. Thanks! Slaporte (WMF) 21:56, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

There is no non-JavaScript facility to remove site links

Hello, recently I have some difficulty moving incorrectly-assigned Wikipedia page sitelink from old (incorrect) Wikidata entry to the correct one. In order to do that, I have to remove the sitelink at the original entry first.

When I clicked [edit] at the sitelink entry on Wikidata page of the article, it links to Special:SetSiteLink page. But there's no "Remove site link" button on that page, submitting the form with an empty sitelink field also have no effect.

How to reproduce:

Nvtj (talk) 11:44, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

I can confirm that this bug exists. Unfortunately, this page is not the best to report bugs. WD:DEV is better. Ping: Lydia Pintscher (WMDE). Matěj Suchánek (talk) 20:16, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
I've filed it at bugzilla:62707. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 12:06, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

FOSS Outreach Program for Women Summer Project Idea

Hi all, I’m putting together a proposal for the FOSS Outreach Program for Women project, and I’m hoping to get some feedback from the community before I finalize my submission next week. I’d like to look at ways to improve outreach and understandability for new users to the site, particularly through use of visuals and diagrams. The one diagram available in the glossary page for claims and statements (File:Wikidata statement.svg) clearly presents the terminology and shows how the different parts fit together. I propose to create similar diagrams to explain the concepts such as entity, item, property, query, page, namespace, and similar terms defined in the Glossary page. These could also convey how these concepts relate to other websites, people, places, and hopefully help to explain the difference between structured and unstructured data. My idea for now is to focus on the basics, so that someone with limited background in structured data can understand what’s going on.

For example see the sample diagram to show the pages, different namespaces, and relation to wikipedia articles, following the example of London.

 
Diagram to describe relationships of pages and namespaces in Wikidata

Other areas which I’d like to look at throughout the summer include use case scenarios for access, editing, exporting/use of data, creating infographics for use case scenarios to guide a new user through the steps. Ideally I’d like to then test these with some sample users, and revise as necessary.

Please let me know if you have any advice on what else could be a good project to work on!

thanks,

Emily 00:41, 15 March 2014‎

Better documentation with pretty pictures always get a +1 from me :-)
I don't really get File:Wikidata glossary - pages.svg. The Wikidata namespace here is a meta namespace not part of Wikidata as a database. This diagram confuses me.
Maybe this can be part of a bigger documentation improvement? I don't like how part of the documentation is on meta and part of the documentation is on this wiki. Multichill (talk) 12:57, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, that is really helpful! The diagram definitely needs more work - I was trying to show the relationship between the pages about database entries and other namespaces, but maybe there needs to be a whole other diagram to describe different namespaces. Emaemura (talk) 14:50, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Sitelinks to closed wikis

Do we want to keep links to existant articles in closed wikis or do we plan to remove them? --Infovarius (talk) 18:55, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

@Ladsgroup: Why are you removing those links? The wikis are no longer editable, but that should not impact whether we keep links for those wikis. --Izno (talk) 19:36, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Ladsgroups answer in hir user_talk. -- Lavallen (talk) 19:42, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
It is unfortunate that his bot breaks from it, but IMO those links should stay if possible. They are closed to editing but the content is still there. Ajraddatz (Talk) 22:58, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
It's better to have a clear policy about it, Isn't it? Amir (talk) 01:25, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
There is a clear policy. It's an article on a wikipedia so it can have sitelinks. If it crashes your bot then the solution is to fix the bot, not to break the sitelinks. Filceolaire (talk) 07:20, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
Also see Talk:Q6293548, especially the "angwikisource, htwikisource" section. Though Q6293548 is a bit of a special case, as this special page exists on every Wikimedia project, but hardly has any use in a closed project. --YMS (talk) 14:07, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

date for rank related changes

Hey :)

I had announced that we'll be making changes to how ranks influence the property parser function, Lua and in the future query results. (See Wikidata:Project chat/Archive/2014/03#rank related changes for more details.) The changes are ready for deployment now. We plan to have them go live on Wikisource and Wikivoyage on 25th of March and on Wikipedia on 27th of March.

Cheers --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 14:10, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Calendar systems annotations

Why on some items, like John B. Calhoun (Q4251066) Gregorian annotation on dates are present and for example in Łukasz Pawlikowski (Q15284485) not? --Rezonansowy (talk) 11:42, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Probably because by 1997 the Julian calendar was no longer being used anywhere, so it would be redundant to specify that it is a Gregorian date.--Underlying lk (talk) 12:03, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
But, on Barack Obama (Q76) we have the same appearance. --Rezonansowy (talk) 12:18, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Underlying lk is correct. It is displayed whenever there could be doubt about it. Julian is not display before a specific data, and Gregorian is not displayed after a specific date. In the time in between, both are displayed. If someone uses Gregorian calendar before its introduction, Gregorian will be displayed though (this is used as a calendar for precolumbina history usually, IIRC). I hope that makes sense. --Denny (talk) 15:59, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
@Underlying lk, Denny: Just take a look on Barack Obama (Q76) birth date, it's August 4 1961 and there's no such annotation, so it's confusing. --Rezonansowy (talk) 12:58, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
There shouldn't be one, if you read the article w:Julian calendar, the last country to use it switched to Gregorian on 1 March 1923, so after that date there is no need to point out that a date is Gregorian.--Underlying lk (talk) 13:30, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I see, but see Wikidata Sandbox (Q4115189), even on March 2 1929 we have this annotation, only after the 1930 it disappears, so that's not 1923 I think. Maybe it's a bug? --Rezonansowy (talk) 15:56, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I would call it deliberate and gracious rounding, not a bug. Also, it is only in the display - the actual data underneath always contains the calendar. --Denny (talk) 16:15, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Bot for items descriptions

Have you heard about Reasonator? This fancy tool automatically generates a description for desired item, example: Johann Sebastian Bach (Q1339) - Reasonator output. We can setup a bot to filling empty descriptions with Reasonator. What do you think? --Rezonansowy (talk) 12:15, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

You probably have something mixed up. Reasonator is just a tool that accesses the data that is already on Wikidata. Bots don't need a visual interface to edit the data. But you are right. It is certainly a most "fancy" tool. And in the case of Mr. Bach we have even surpassed Wolfram Alpha (especially because we are multilingual) (https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Johann+Sebastian+Bach). --Tobias1984 (talk) 17:01, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
For a little while now, Reasonator is able to create texts based to the Wikidata statements, which is a great feature. User:Magnus Manske heavily extended his Autodesc approach there, but the original script is still available and able to automatically add descriptions in search results etc. These Auto-descriptions could be inserted permanently by bots. User:Bene* once planned to do something like this. However, I don't think it should be done fully automatically, as the results sometimes are great, and sometimes crap. I introduced a similar feature in my Label Collector tool, so an description that is automatically generated from the statemenents is proposed for many items (in the "[d]" line of the preview section), but it has to be actively reviewed by a human (who can also edit it) before saving. --YMS (talk) 17:24, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
For now, we can use just only for items about persons (with instance of human), so it shouldn't be a problem. I post this proposal because the appearance of Reasonator is very predictable. Just test this with other items. In some cases additional data in description would be welcomed, but the basic info is better than nothing. --Rezonansowy (talk) 22:27, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
I'd like to bring to the table the notion that "static" descriptions should only be added to items where an automatic one would fail, for example, when the significance of the item cannot (yet) be encoded in statements. The default case should be an automated description, dynamically generated. IMHO that will cover >90% of cases nicely. City in China? County of Texas? U.S. geneticist? Why type those in, bot-assisted or not! An automated, dynamic description will not only prevent thousands of mind-bogglingly dull work be human editors, but also improve with changes to both algorithms and statements. In fact, I use the absence of an autodesc-generated description as an indicator for missing essential statements. Just because items may have a manual, static description doesn't mean we absolutely have to fill them in everywhere. --Magnus Manske (talk) 23:23, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
This page indicates how to add autodesc.js to your common.js to enable that capability in a user environment. LaddΩ chat ;) 01:00, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
autodesc.js is extremely useful, both for readers and editors. Can we add it to MediaWiki:Common.js?--Underlying lk (talk) 04:34, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
I totally agree with you that autodesc is extremely useful (and I like Magnus' idea to have something like this by default and only write static descriptions where necessary). However, it's a very expensive script, easily resulting in several hundred API requests on a search result page, which may completely block your internet connection or other browser resources for quite a while. This is why I don't think it should be automatically enabled for everybody. Having it as an (optional) gadget would be an idea, as long as no similar solution is implemented in Wikidata itself. --YMS (talk) 10:28, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
@Magnus Manske: Could you add an option in autodesc.js to always show automatic descriptions in search please? Thanks. — Ayack (talk) 09:34, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
@YMS: Then it should definitely be a gadget because it makes a huge impact on the user experience. I created a proposal to that effect on Wikidata talk:Tools.--Underlying lk (talk) 12:36, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

@Ayack: Option added, see (and use) here. --Magnus Manske (talk) 14:08, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

@Magnus Manske: Great! Thanks a lot! — Ayack (talk) 14:59, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

@Magnus Manske: But in case of >10% we should add an option to allow users to edit this. Could you support my proposal? Automatic descriptions would be very handy, but should be bot-assisted. --Rezonansowy (talk) 16:05, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

ask for technical support for multlilingual MediaWiki pages

Heya,
can somebody give us some technical support für our project page Wikipedia:Neiße on commons please? The page should be in czech, polish, german and upper sorbian in the way pagetranslations are organized here in Wikidata. If german version gets changed, there should the automatic system inform people, that there are outstanding translations and so on :) (I know it here with seperate fields). That would be very nice. Base language is german. Thank you for every hint, Conny (talk) 19:31, 17 March 2014 (UTC).

@Conny: Wikidata doesn't have anything to do with that, that is handled on Commons. You will find the instructions here: Commons:Preparing a page for translation. I hope it helps!--Micru (talk) 23:46, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. Conny (talk) 04:46, 18 March 2014 (UTC).

What is the difference in the Commons site and Commons Category?

I am wondering what is the difference with setting the commons category as a property and setting the wikisite for commons? --Napoleon.tan (talk) 02:07, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Topic of work

Is there a property I can use to provide the topic of a work? E.g. to provide the information that the topic of the book The Mammals of Australia (Q7749829) corresponds to the item Mammals of Australia (Q6745759).

I'd like to link items about city chronicles with the respective items about the cities for example.

If there is no property for this yet, what should it be called? "Topic of work" or "Work documents" or something like that?

One more question: do you think it is a good idea to have a reverse property too? Let me give you an example: The "Chronik von Hechthausen" documents the history of the municipality of Hechthausen. So the item about "Chronik von Hechthausen" should have a property "topic of work: Hechthausen (Q13188396)". But Bornberg (Q893942) is also part of the municipality of Hechthausen and to cover the information that the history of Bornberg (Q893942) is detailed in "Chronik von Hechthausen" too, we would need a separate property. On the other hand that could lead to extremely large amounts of properties on items that are more important than Bornberg (Q893942) or Hechthausen (Q13188396) and are thus described in dozens or hundreds of books. Opinions? --Slomox (talk) 10:00, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure what these items are. Villages? Could you give them an 'instance of' or 'type of administrative unit' statement so we can generate some automatic descriptions? Filceolaire (talk) 12:07, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Would main subject (P921) work for the main query? - AdamBMorgan (talk) 12:52, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @Slomox: for "topic of work" we have main subject (P921). As for the second question you can use the pair located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) / contains the administrative territorial entity (P150), and then also add P132 (P132) to each one as Filceolaire suggested. If your book to refers to two items that are part of a third one (the municipality), I would refer only to the main one (since it is implicit that you are referring to the sub-items too), but it is just my personal opinion, there are no guidelines about that.--Micru (talk) 13:01, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
We also have statement is subject of (P805) which is the reverse property of main subject (P921). Filceolaire (talk) 13:21, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
@Filceolaire: Please note that statement is subject of (P805) is strictly a statement qualifier, see its creation discussion. It is not the inverse of main subject (P921). I have clarified its property documentation. LaddΩ chat ;) 22:46, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
Looking at the property, main subject (P921) looked like a good match of what I searched for at first. But then I looked at the items this is used in and they are almost all fictional works and P921 is used to give subjective statements about the subject of the fictional work. Arrested Development (Q11598) is about incest (Q127683) for example? That's a very awkward and limited "subject heading". But I guess I shouldn't worry about those awkward use cases. The original proposal was about non-fiction works, so the property fits my use case. Thank you!
Thank you too to Filceolaire and Micru for adding properties on the two items.
@Micru: If your book to refers to two items that are part of a third one (the municipality), I would refer only to the main one (since it is implicit that you are referring to the sub-items too) That's problematic because this cannot be automatically assumed. Let fictional municipality X contain the four fictional places XA, XB, XC, XD. It's possible that "chronicle of X" describes the history of X, XA, XB and XC but not XD, because XD is detailed in a separate book. Or "chronicle of X" is only about X and not about any of the places at all. But I guess the P921 solution is good enough for me at the moment and I shouldn't worry about this for now.
Thanks for all answers. --Slomox (talk) 09:35, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Crimea history

Crimea would be a good model item to test our historical capabilities. We have:

and probably some more. How do we model such a complex history? Where should information be stored? --Tobias1984 (talk) 13:24, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for starting this discussion! you missed the current Republic of Crimea (Q15925436) in your little list.
i think it is best to store informations focussing on the actual topic and not beyond. For example for the current "Russian de facto regime" Republic of Crimea (Q15925436) we should only store information (like population, government info etc) beginning in 2014. All older information go to the Ukrainian Autonomous Republic item (Q756294) and to other items. Wikipedias are of course more free to extent their content with paragraphs about history and future and so on, but on Wikidata we must be more strict. We should try to be as clear as possible. This means not to duplicate data in several more or less related items. It also means not to store information where it does not really belong to (like pre-foundation data). i already sorted out mixed information (like currency, flags, country codes) from the geographical Crimean penisula item Crimea (Q7835) to the political items.
For older Crimean items I don't see many possible problems. But data consistency problems are likely especially for Autonomous Republic of Crimea (Q756294) and Republic of Crimea (Q15925436) because of their "official coexistence" in the next years i think. Holger1959 (talk) 14:57, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
It is more of a technical question. How should we structure the data across so many items, so that queries (and the Reasonator) can make a sensible timeline of the whole history. Do we create an item for each historical political system? What is the threshold for new items? The most recent change is in itself questionable. Do we really need a separate article for the Republic of Crimea (Q15925436) and perhaps another item for when (or if) they become a part of Russia. On Wikipedia the two periods of soviet membership are grouped together as Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (Q139671). It does seem like it is time to draft even the most basic outline for this. --Tobias1984 (talk) 20:12, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
My feeling is that Crimea is a geographical area with a long geopolitical story. We want to tell the story of this area geographically speaking, which is mainly a sequence of political status. If we got an item for the goepolitical area, we can create this sequence and used properties like
⟨ Cherson (Q1070397)      ⟩ followed by (P156)   ⟨ Crimean Khanate (Q160440)      ⟩
in sequence Search ⟨ 2629621 ⟩
. (see the property proposal in generic properties proposal for in sequence qualifier) TomT0m (talk) 21:08, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Crimea: Ukraine/Russia changes

we will presumably see some trouble with Ukraine vs Russia changes in regard to country (P17) in a lot of minor topic items for the next time (months/years…)

in the last days I edited some Crimean items which did not have any country property yet. I intentionally did not add P17 (like I usually do for other items), but instead used located in/on physical feature (P706) = Crimea (Q7835) (Crimean peninsula), and in addition located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) for more precise location (district/city/town). This way we at least have location data which is 100 % correct and non-controversial, and which can stay independent of political status changes. (I know that clear P17 information would be optimal, but as long as the real situation is unclear …)

Maybe this is a useful idea for other users too. Holger1959 (talk) 14:57, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

It should be possible to simply add the POV of both sides, and include appropriate sources. I.e. Crimea would be a part of the Russian Federation according to recent proclamations of Russian government bodies, but is a part of the Ukraine according to the Ukrainian constitution or some sources in the Ukrainian government. We certainly don't want to import the discussion about this topic into Wikidata, and should be happy about simply displaying both claims with the appropriate sources.
If we make a step back, the situation is not unclear. We do not have to decide on the veracity of to what country Crimea belongs. We merely report both sides and their strongest sources. --Denny (talk) 16:07, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
yes, the other possibility would be to add P17 = Ukraine and P17 = Republic of Crimea, both with some clarifying qualifiers, to all items with location Crimea (except some historic items maybe). Maybe you can work this out for Perevalne (Q4350000) as an example? i don't have an idea yet which qualifiers would be good, and if or how this would render. how many items are affected? I guess we have more than 10,000 items with location Crimea (not all with P17 at the moment, many without any statements). and what is needed to not run into constraint violation problems? Holger1959 (talk) 16:23, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
It might make sense to add both as you say, and use something like country (P17) -> Republic of Crimea (Q15925436) P794 (P794) list of states with limited recognition (Q199683).--Underlying lk (talk) 16:29, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I think currently only Russia has accepted the Referendum. Which property to use for that? approved by (P790)? Probably good to gather that information at Wikidata:Political geography task force. --Tobias1984 (talk) 20:19, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

significant event (P793) and usability

There are many properties with potentially ambiguous usage, but as far as I'm aware significant event (P793) is the only property that requires reading an extensive talk page documentation before it can be used at all. There are rules for ships, rules for buildings, rules for cars or computers, all with a matching list of items to be used as qualifier, and just explaining them requires extensive examples. I understand the need to avoid the proliferation of countless time properties, but pushing the approach too far in the other direction can make the use of properties even more confusing than it already is. Having significant event (P793) as a catchall property might be unavoidable for cases with a limited number of applications, where creating a dedicated property would be impractical, but a time property for production or construction for example would see use on tens of thousands of items, certainly far more than spacecraft docking/undocking date (P622) or even date of first performance (P1191) and it would not be wasteful to create them.--Underlying lk (talk) 18:44, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I do not see what extra properties could be created to improve this situation; there are multiple existing date properties to document the occurrence of the most common key events: service entry (P729), inception (P571), time of discovery or invention (P575), service retirement (P730), date of disappearance (P746), dissolved, abolished or demolished date (P576)... I will try to clarify its use and possibly use the new Template:Constraint:Conflicts with to forbid its use with values like foundation (Q157031) or construction (Q385378). LaddΩ chat ;) 23:07, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
@Laddo: I'm thinking of properties like production start/end date or the date something was officially adopted for example (it could be a law or a state symbol), or more in general any other time property which could be used by a very substantial number of items. If they can be applied to a vast number of different entities, their creation shouldn't be ruled out altogether in favour of a catchall 'significant event' property, because the result is that the use becomes very confusing, which would lead it to become seldom used (significant event (P793) is currently used less than 1,000 times) or prone to misuse, which is not something we would want to happen.--Underlying lk (talk) 06:58, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
@Underlying lk: I agree with you; such clear properties should be proposed and approved quickly. I am also a bit surprised that Snipre, back then, preferred using generic significant event (P793) instead of something like production start/end date that would indeed clearly apply to a large number of "product" items. No task force seems to have requested "approval date" or "adoption date" either. LaddΩ chat ;) 01:14, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
I think inception (P571) and start time (P580) are missused in a lot of items because more specific properties are missing. When is a building created? When the first stone is placed or when it is finished? When are a boat created? When the keel is laid down, when she is put to sea or when she is accepted into service? significant event (P793) is not an option imho. It should be used for things like conflagrations and collisions. /ℇsquilo 18:11, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
significant event (P793) is better than a bunch of properties because with that properties you can describe everything in all different fields. The problem of having one property for each kind of event is to be sure that everyone can find and use these properties. And if you are nor convinced just lookat the examples to the number of properties you will need to create. significant event (P793) allows an accurate description of the event because generic properties like service entry (P729) are not very precise for some items: does it mean the date when the item got its approval, the date when the first item leaves the production, the date when the first user uses it,...
And then think about the extraction of data from wikita in wp: if you want to describe the event linked to an item you have to know each property number. Here with significant event (P793) you know one property number and the rest can easily be derived. And finally by using a structured data storage like significant event (P793) you can create automatic timeline in wp without the need of selecting every event one by one. Snipre (talk) 13:34, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Using a single property for all key events also has some drawbacks. It makes it difficult to populate infoboxes that refer to two or more dates such as fr:Modèle:Infobox Équipe nationale de rugby à XV. Besides, in most cases, one will not be able to use significant event (P793) as a qualifier since you most often need qualifiers with it. I think we could do with some more properties related to dates. Casper Tinan (talk) 22:30, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
@Caper Tinan:, provided the items used in p793 are consistent, I do not think it is difficult to populatefr:Modèle:Infobox Équipe nationale de rugby à XV using the "getQualifier" function of fr:Module:Wikidata. --Zolo (talk) 11:00, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Magazine issues

I'm looking for a little advice. I want to add data items for specific issues of magazines but I can't find the right properties I need to do so. Before I request new properties, I want to check that I haven't missed anything and that I've got this worked out properly. First, would an issue be an instance of (P31) the magazine title, or part of (P361), or something else? For that matter, would the issue be an instance of a magazine (Q41298), or is there a data item for a single issue of a magazine, or is neither necessary (as the overall magazine data item will also be instance of magazine)? volume (P478) will probably work for the volume but I think I'm going to have to request a new "issue number" property. publication date (P577) and editor (P98) will work for each issue; other staff are largely already covered too. I think I will also need a "contents" property, to link to data items for everything contained inside the issue of the magazine; "contains works" might be better as it's less generic. It would also be useful to have the opposite, say "collected in", for the work to link back to the issue of the magazine. In book terms, each linked "contained" work will be an edition rather than a work item. Does that all sound sensible? (As for why I want this: at some point Wikidata should be able to support pages like Weird Tales/Volume 24/Issue 3 on Wikisource.) - AdamBMorgan (talk) 22:20, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

In my opinion you need items for 'Weird Tales', for 'Weird Tales/Volume 24' and for 'Weird Tales/Volume 24/Issue 3' and for each story in Issue 3.
'Weird Tales' is an instance of a magazine with a publisher, start date, end date editors etc.
'Weird Tales/Volume 24' is 'part of:Weird Tales' is preceded by/followed by other volumes.
'Weird Tales/Volume 24/Issue 3' is 'part of:Weird Tales/Volume 24' and has a publication date, preceded by, succeeded by properties, maybe 'editor' too, even 'illustrator'.
Each story has an 'author', a 'date of publication', links to other 'edition's (such as the wikisource edition). I think 'Part of' is still the way to link each story to the issue it was published in.
Each item should also have a sitelink to the corrresponding wikisource page but can also have the full work available at URL (P953) property linking to the URL for the wikisource text (useful for other people who are using wikidata info to search for stuff). P953 can be used to link to other archives too.
At least that is my opinion. Filceolaire (talk) 23:09, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
For issue there is issue (P433). The Help of sourcing explains how to link a single article within a magazine, but for source items it is not necessary to link to an issue, but to an article within an issue, so it is not much help for your request. Ahoerstemeier (talk) 23:12, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
For sourcing you don't need a separate item for each issue, as Ahoerstemeier said here (issue (P433) is used a as a property in sources to link to a text name for an issue, not to an item). When you are linking to Wikisource documents however, where it is a compliation of different stories, like here, then I feel each story deserves a separate item because each has different properties (especially author). Filceolaire (talk) 23:22, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
+1 For sourcing no need to create a bunch of elements. Then for wikisource I propose to avoid the creation of intermediary elements: create one element for the magazine and one element for each story and avoid the need of creating an element for each volume or each issue. We have to choose what kind of information has to be put in wikidata in terms of reusability by other projects. Snipre (talk) 10:11, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Process of bot request

Hi. A week ago I posted a bot permission request for User:smbbot but have heard nothing since. If I'm just being impatient that's no problem but I suspect I've done something wrong. Smb1001 (talk) 17:32, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

I've added it to the list at the top, since the bot seems to be dead. Maybe that will prompt some discussion :-) Ajraddatz (Talk) 05:22, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Property for non-administrative place?

What is the property for indicating that an item is located in a given non-administrative place? A few examples: Sardis (Q232615) <property> -> ‎Lydia (Q620765) or Merv (Q193325) <property> -> ‎Central Asia (Q27275).--Underlying lk (talk) 17:56, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Well, Lydia (Q620765) maybe not litterly is an administrative entity, but I think it looks like you maybe still can use P131 for this purpose. -- Lavallen (talk) 19:41, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
That's not doable in this case, as I'm importing from w:Template:Infobox ancient site which makes a distinction between the parameter for administrative units location and the non-administrative place where it is located region.--Underlying lk (talk) 20:23, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
In my opinion, the "region" parameter of en:Template:Infobox ancient site is too unspecific to import automatically.
The first example ("Sardis (Q232615) <property> -> ‎Lydia (Q620765)") should be a specific property <part of historical dominion> or something like that. I checked some items like Machu Picchu (Q676203), Pompeii (Q43332) and Lugdunum (Q665), but this property doesn't seem to exist yet. It should be crated in my opinion.
But the second case ("Merv (Q193325) <property> -> ‎Central Asia (Q27275)") is not so useful as a property. "Turkmenistan (Q874)" or "Karakum Desert (Q172702)" would be valid values too. That Merv (Q193325) is located in Central Asia (Q27275) is a derived property anyways that can be deduced from the coordinates. --Slomox (talk) 08:25, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Well, region sounds "administrative" to me? What prevents us from adding more than one kind of administrative unit in the same Property? They can still be separated from what claims they have in P31/P132. -- Lavallen (talk) 10:09, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
In this case it isn't, from the template's documentation: Do not mention administrative divisions such as provinces here, those should be put in the location entry.--Underlying lk (talk) 13:26, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Then you may argue if Lydia (Q620765) really should be at that parameter. "Asia Minor" sound more like a region in that case. -- Lavallen (talk) 15:24, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
If so, which property should be used for a region?--Underlying lk (talk) 15:39, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
A property for a (historical) region is not yet available (do not use p1134 for that), but if you propose such a new property I will support that. But even then, the "region" parameter of en:Template:Infobox ancient site is not really specified good enough to import automatically. Some 'regions' point to deserts or mountains. Michiel1972 (talk) 15:06, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
That does not sound as a well defined property. Would it not be better to try to find some kind of algoritm to identify a both contemporary region (P131) and a one region (P131) for the present time?
Look at Q15528601 where I have tried to add both what region it was a part when the entity was "alive" in the beginning of 1970's (Q339637 with rank preferred) and another claim about where the entity can be found today (Q504626 with rank normal, but without P582). The template for historical regions on svwp demands both those claims, but I think I can use the same property for it.
I guess you can do the same for "historical Sardes". When the site was alive, it belonged to Lydia, but now it is a part of some region in Turkey. If the entity is about a historical site, I think the historical region should be preferred, while the present should have normal rank. -- Lavallen (talk) 16:18, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Use P1134 (P1134) or located in/on physical feature (P706) whenever located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) is inappropriate. /ℇsquilo 18:01, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Lydia (Q620765) was a Kingdom so it was literally an administrative place up until end date 113BC when it was succeeded by the Roman province of Asia. I understand that for the archeologists there is a big distinction between the modern local authority with jurisdiction over the site and the ancient kingdom that held sway when the site last flourished but Wikidata doesn't think that way. For us they are just administrative entities linked together back through history. At least that is how I see it. Filceolaire (talk) 12:14, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Imo,
⟨ Lydia (Q620765)      ⟩ instance of (P31)   ⟨ realm (Q1250464)      ⟩
with
⟨ Sardis (Q232615)      ⟩ part of (P361)   ⟨ Lydia (Q620765)      ⟩
does a pretty good job. We might add a type to Sardis (Q232615) and we got everything we need to infer the rest, an historian could infer the rest with a good knowledge of the organisation of the Kingdom at the time. TomT0m (talk) 13:12, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Pywikibot

Hi, it would be helpful to have more examples on Wikidata:Creating a bot, like : add a qualifier, create a page. Pyb (talk) 19:36, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, should probably have a link to mw:Manual:Pywikibot/Scripts#Wikidata and not duplicate effort. Multichill (talk) 19:51, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
@Pyb: Hi Pyb, I'm also learning to use Pywikibot so if you have a question you can drop me a message and I'll answer it, within the limit of my abilities. To create a new item you can use newitem.py, Multichill's new script tailor-made for that purpose. For adding qualifiers the right function seems to be addQualifier from page.py, I have a few examples of how other claims are added in my sandbox but qualifiers are not among them yet, I might try to add them later. Cheers,--Underlying lk (talk) 20:40, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I could only manage to add a qualifier after changing page.py, either there is some sort of bug or I'm missing something.--Underlying lk (talk) 21:23, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Adding qualifiers works for me. I extended Wikidata:Creating a bot a little bit. Creating an empty Wikidata item is not supported yet (it needs to have at least one sitelink).  — Felix Reimann (talk) 16:09, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Tracked in Bugzilla
Bug 62916
Resolved fixed
This is what I get when I try your example: "pywikibot.data.api.APIError: no-such-qualifier: Claim does not have a qualifier with the given hash". Which is correct obviously, given that the qualifier is not supposed to exist.--Underlying lk (talk) 21:33, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
This was a bug. It is fixed now. Please update.  — Felix Reimann (talk) 09:30, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Your example works now, thank you.--Underlying lk (talk) 10:01, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
thx ;) Pyb (talk) 13:47, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

indigenous species and migration paths

We have endemic to (P183), but I could not find a property for native species (Q169480). How should we record that a species in indigenous to a set of geographic regions, e.g. a bird might be indigenous to Far North Queensland (Q1396047), New Guinea (Q40285) and Maluku Islands (Q3827)?

We have taxon range map image (P181) , but that is a pretty picture for humans to view; it isnt (re-)useful data.

I would love a property for flyway (Q5463697), but I suspect that needs to wait until we have a data type of 'geographic box'. John Vandenberg (talk) 02:20, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Well, the movements maybe still can be described by items?
:Q25399
:Migration: North & Eastern Europe, Northern and Central Asia
::Time: Summer
:Migration: North & East Africa, Middle East & South Asia
::Time: Winter
:Migration: Western Europe, Korea, Japan
::Time: All year
? -- Lavallen (talk) 16:03, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Describing the indigenous status with items would be useful. Other precise properties could be where the bird nest (rookery (Q2640507)/bird colony (Q2368963)) and rest (communal roosting (Q5153964)).
The flyway should be described with a series of waypoints (waypoint (Q138081) / coordinate location (P625)), or more generally identify which flyway they are part of. e.g. Black-headed Ibis (Q373114) <flyway> Central Asian Flyway (Q5060366). John Vandenberg (talk) 01:35, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
We have day in year for periodic occurrence (P837) for yearly events like migrations.
Some birds will have multiple migration routes (e.g. from europe to africa via Spain and also via Italy) so you need a property for the migration with qualifiers for the origin, destination, route and time of year. Basic queries will only see the value assigned to the general property and not see the qualifiers. The destination of the migration is probably the crucial value that should show up there.
Migration to:East Africa
Time of year:october
From (place):Central Russia
From (place):Ukraine
via:Caucasus
via:Palestine
via:Nile Valley
or something like that. Filceolaire (talk) 21:35, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Is there a search function like this

For example, I'm looking for pages that are on the Chinese Wikipedia, but they do not have a corresponding page on the English Wikipedia, I want to search for such pages TheChampionMan1234 (talk) 01:50, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

What you need is this: Not in the Other Language: finds Wikidata items with a Wikipedia page in language A but not in B.--Underlying lk (talk) 07:56, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Reasonator for all

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

It's been a week and opposes are begin to pop up abit in all honesty there is consensus to have reasonator as a gadget but not to enable it by default. Closing this per a request too John F. Lewis (talk) 17:32, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Can we add a toolbox link to Reasonator for all users? To do so, it should be sufficient to add this script to MediaWiki:Common.js.--Underlying lk (talk) 09:05, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

  Support On this spirit, I still think we should do something like with {{Q'}} in {{Q}} and put a reasonator link also in Q. TomT0m (talk) 11:49, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Somebody already made that as a gadget (I'm sorry I forget who made this). Second function in my User:Tobias1984/common.js We should make it a default gadget. --Tobias1984 (talk) 12:17, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
@Tobias1984: it was me, lol. But I'd like to provide a Reasonator link for everyone, including unregistered users if possible, which isn't something that can be done with a user script/gadget.--Underlying lk (talk) 12:41, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
@Underlying lk: Thanks again :) I really like that gadget. Probably some Wikimedia-developer is watching this page and can comment on this feature. --Tobias1984 (talk) 16:33, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
I put the code in MediaWiki:Gadget-ReasonatorTools.js but I'm missing something, because it doesn't seem to work. Please improve.
When this works and we're confident that the code is correct. We can enable it by default in MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition. This enables it for everyone including logged out users. Multichill (talk) 13:48, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
  Support Yes, please! 80.249.52.108 16:43, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
  Support Agree resonator really does help. --222.127.85.170 05:18, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
  Support I agree, obviously ;-) --Magnus Manske (talk) 18:14, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
  Support it will open the flood gates of even more Reasonator presentations. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 18:17, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
  Support Yes please. Ajraddatz (talk) 18:22, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Yes to make Resonator default on MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition, but no to making it default on MediaWiki:Common.js.--Snaevar (talk) 23:47, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
  Oppose Enabling for all users and integrating to {{Q}}. It is not so useful tool for this. But   Support adding to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets and {{Q'}}. — Ivan A. Krestinin (talk) 18:56, 22 March 2014 (UTC) 
NewPP limit report
Parsed by mw1181
CPU time usage: 4.324 seconds
Real time usage: 4.702 seconds
Preprocessor visited node count: 11200/1000000
Preprocessor generated node count: 19477/1500000
Post‐expand include size: 65756/2048000 bytes
Template argument size: 13698/2048000 bytes
Highest expansion depth: 17/40
Expensive parser function count: 117/500
Lua time usage: 1.769/10.000 seconds
Lua memory usage: 1.39 MB/50 MB
Lua Profile:
    Scribunto_LuaSandboxCallback::getContent                         340 ms       17.5%
    Scribunto_LuaSandboxCallback::getExpandedArgument                300 ms       15.5%
    <Module:JSON:297>                                                280 ms       14.4%
    recursiveClone <mw.lua:109>                                      180 ms        9.3%
    ?                                                                140 ms        7.2%
    sub                                                              140 ms        7.2%
    <Module:JSON:373>                                                100 ms        5.2%
    char                                                              80 ms        4.1%
    Scribunto_LuaSandboxCallback::newTitle                            60 ms        3.1%
    type                                                              60 ms        3.1%
    [others]                                                         260 ms       13.4%
-- Lavallen (talk) 06:16, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
The link to reasonator generation requires nothing expensive, even no template extension but parameter code, so this is a non issue. See {{Q'}} code. Adapted to {{Q}} code this require no real addition, in the worst case if we drop the requirement of generating a valid reasonator link we should see nothing in those numbers. TomT0m (talk) 11:31, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
  Oppose Use Q' if you like it. It makes no sense to have it at all this exceptions. --Succu (talk) 11:54, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
The proposal is for adding a toolbox link to Reasonator, on item pages only.--Underlying lk (talk) 15:00, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Please Succu explain what you mean.. Truly, having taxonomic name as an exclusive shows a lack of understanding of what nomenclature is and, how it is implemented in Wikidata. GerardM (talk) 07:37, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps you better explain your question? This "having taxonomic name as an exclusive" makes no sense to me and certainly does not show anything. BTW: what nomenclature? - Brya (talk) 17:26, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
  Oppose Enabling for all users and integrating to {{Q}}.   Support adding to {{Q'}} though. /ℇsquilo 13:39, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
  Support as an opt-in gadget, but   Oppose by default. --Ricordisamoa 17:27, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
Why so? Reasonator is an excellent gadget for introducing people to Wikidata and showing what it can achieve, so it is particularly relevant to new and unregistered users.--Underlying lk (talk) 13:21, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
I could not disagree more. I think Reasonator is a quite useless tool, but if anyone wants to play with it, feel free to enabu it. /ℇsquilo 16:05, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Hadoop

Anyone playing around with the Wikidata dataset and Hadoop at the moment? I wonder if anyone already has experience with that especially combined with Hive. Multichill (talk) 14:15, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Ranking page for wikidata per articles type by country

Now that wikipedia articles are linked with wikidata, maybe we can also create a ranking page similar to what wikipedia has. Maybe we can create ranking of number of wikipedia / wikivoyage articles per country. We can create a list per category. Like list of wikipedia & wikivoyage articles per geographical entity per country. List of wikipedia articles per person per country. List of events per country event. Then create article density over land area and population and history start date and end date.

I see a good effect in creating this, it would be more visible which country/territory needs more articles based on density.

The bad effect is, since people tend to be competitive on ranking, we may have a stub creating race like what is happening in the ranking for wikipedia articles now.

What do you think? --Napoleon.tan (talk) 14:33, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

@Magnus Manske: already implemented (basic) querying at http://208.80.153.172/wdq/ . Would be nice if over time the sitelinks would be part of this dataset and more advanced SQL statements like GROUP BY would be supported. Than you would be able to query for a bit more complicated questions. Multichill (talk) 14:53, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
The sitelinks are part of WDQ; check the API docs (look for "link"). You could find how many items for a certain query have e.g. a frwiki sitelink. For overall stats, a direct database query would be more efficient though. I've put a simple one I just ran here. If you want categories, you can run quick_intersection to get the items; then run the database query on those items. --Magnus Manske (talk) 18:12, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you Multichill and Magnus. I have been aware of the WDQ for a while. Let me check the quick_intersection tool. --Napoleon.tan (talk) 15:07, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Protecting data

Is there a possibility to protect some data in an item ? I want to import some ID from their origin databases so once the data is imported and sourced there is no need to access to that data for edition, at least for normal users. So can we expect once to protect some data like the authority control IDs for example and to allow only a small group of users to edit them in case of need in order to ensure a reliable data use ? Snipre (talk) 12:09, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

The problem is not limited to authority control data, but quite some other properties, too. The sex of a person is very unlikely to change, and so is the author of a book, the coordinates of a place, and so on. Maybe we can even say that most every statement that is made once is rather unlikely to change, while of course there may be the need to add some statements at any time. One approach would be to allow changing any existing values only to a certain group (e.g. autopatrollers). This would probably prevent a lot of vandalism and accidents of all kinds, but also radically reduce the degree of freedom in Wikidata editing. --YMS (talk) 12:47, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
This is not a good idea, because in that case vandalism will just add new statements instead of modifying old ones and this will be more difficult to correct. I think more about a specific protection for statements which have typically one value and are unique and are used as identifiers. And this protection should be activated only by bots through the API in case of large data import. Snipre (talk) 13:13, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
We could use an AbuseFilter rule instead of "normal" protection. E.g. "if the claim's value is not supposed to change once set (or the property is not supposed to have more than x values) and the user is not reliable enough, then reject the edit". --Ricordisamoa 16:38, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Gadget Preview not working

Hi, since 2-3 days I no longer see the preview link beside each article linked to an item, normally put by MediaWiki:Gadget-Preview. Anyone else having that problem ? LaddΩ chat ;) 22:41, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Fixed it. As User:Underlying lk kindly told me, the wbEntityType variable has been removed from Wikibase. I'll check other gadgets now. --YMS (talk) 08:06, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Also changed the code in MediaWiki:Gadget-ReasonatorTools.js, MediaWiki:Gadget-Descriptions.js, MediaWiki:Gadget-EmptyDetect.js and MediaWiki:Gadget-Move.js, though not everywhere something was really broken (as a !== was made). There's still quite some user scripts using wbEntityType - ping User:לערי ריינהארט, User:Fomafix, User:Kolja21, User:Ricordisamoa, User:Leitoxx, User:Zuphilip, User:Stryn, User:Ivan A. Krestinin, User:Henning (WMDE), User:Ermanon, User:Laddo: a check like "(mw.config.get('wbEntityType') === 'item')" should be replaced by something like "(mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber') === 0)". --YMS (talk) 08:16, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, back to normal ! MediaWiki:Gadget-AuthorityControl.js is still having problems with that, but I guess it should be fixed soon. LaddΩ chat ;) 10:44, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
+1. @YMS: Thanks for the notification! --Kolja21 (talk) 16:58, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Not working now: User:Ricordisamoa/WikidataTrust.js, User:FelixReimann/taxobox.js, and they do not contain "wbEntityType", so there is another problem. Also gadgets: LabelLister, Merge, Move, FindRedirectsForAliases, Preview, SitelinkCheck, and NavPopups (in items). --Infovarius (talk) 18:35, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
@Infovarius: It could be that they use other variables which were removed in the same change.--Underlying lk (talk) 19:36, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
@Infovarius: WikidataTrust is working fine for me, without changes. --Ricordisamoa 14:20, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Gadget-AuthorityControl.js and MediaWiki:Gadget-Descriptions.js are still broken... — Ayack (talk) 20:16, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Dušan Petković

Item Dušan Petković at wikidata should be connected with Душан Петковић at sr.wikipedia (https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Душан_Петковић ). But when I try to connect them, some bug occurs so it is impossible. Someone know what could be problem? --Јованвб (talk) 23:24, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

There was a duplicate item connected to just sr.wikipedia and nothing else. I've merged it into Dušan Petković (Q3716773) so everything should be working now. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 00:28, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Add property

Hello. For example, there is a category in Greek Wikipedia for persons who born in Athens. Is their a way to put the property "place of birth" with "imported from" "Greek Wikipedia" easily? Is there a bot that can help me with that? Do I have to ask in local wikipedia? Xaris333 (talk) 01:44, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

@Xaris333: Hi, the easiest way would be to use claimit.py; if you give me the category I can run the import for you.--Underlying lk (talk) 12:28, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

wikitable sortable

Does the "wikitable sortable"-class look correct to you? -- Lavallen (talk) 09:53, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

No. There's something wrong somewhere, not on the page, but on Wikidata propably. --Stryn (talk) 14:28, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Void item

Tracked in Bugzilla
Bug 42362

I found an item that seems to be void; apparently it was never created, because there is no deletion log. There are probably more of these; could't they be collected by a bot and used for newly created items? The bot that is leaving these holes behind should be fixed, too.

Regards, Capmo (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

What whould be the use of filling those "holes"? Every deleted item leaves a number empty. Reusing is not useful because the numbers should be unique. Q3048227 is empty due to a software bug. Jumping back to old numbers would destory the chronology. --Kolja21 (talk) 02:27, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi, I wasn't suggesting to reuse deleted items, I just proposed to use those items left behind by the "bug". I fail to see why chronology is so important here. (note that regardless of the item number, we also have the chronological Date of page creation and the Page ID which is also sequential [5][6]). Regards, Capmo (talk) 04:38, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
Q3048227 has never been created, and never been deleted. (If not our oversighters have done something here that makes it invisible even for admins, but I doubt that.)
Somewhere between Q3048226 and Q3048228 was created, somebody went to Special:NewItem to create a new item, but hesitated to finish hir action. Q3048227 was reserved for this user, but (s)he never used it. This happens often, nothing to worry about. -- Lavallen (talk) 06:12, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
I suppose that number is not reserved for users during creation, because I get sometimes conflicts when creating. --Infovarius (talk) 02:58, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
@Capmo: bugzilla:42362 is WONTFIXed. --Ricordisamoa 12:17, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
OK! Capmo (talk) 22:31, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Patent number

Is there a way to set patent number as a property of something that is patented (e.g. Kinetite Q15982768)? If not where do I request it? Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 11:22, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't think so. To request a new property, go to Wikidata:Property proposal, pick the appropriate tpic area and fill in a new entry based on the template provided. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 13:48, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Now requested at Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic#Patent number but I didn't understand many of the fields in the form so it should be looked at by someone who does. Thryduulf (talk: local | en.wp | en.wikt) 01:09, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

open position at WMDE for an intern or working student to work on Wikidata

Hey everyone :)

Since Adam's internship with us is coming to an end we are looking for a new amazing intern or working student to help us out around Wikidata development. You can find all the details at http://wikimedia.de/wiki/Working_student_Wikidata_(f/m). If you have any questions please let me know.

Cheers --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 11:58, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Properties for Deletion

P132 (P132) and P60 (P60) have been up for deletion for months now. Can anyone who has an opinion and hasn't voiced it yet go to Wikidata:Properties_for_deletion? If there is someone without an opinion can they give it another few days and then close the discussion? Filceolaire (talk) 12:44, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Month after, that's a significant part of Wikidatas lifetime. Maybe some people have even changed their minds ... Maybe we should reboot the discussions has a lot have been said since. TomT0m (talk) 14:12, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Well, the merge of located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) and P31 is already done (or half done) in many places. -- Lavallen (talk) 16:42, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
What? When was that agreed? Are you sure you meant located in the administrative territorial entity (P131)? Filceolaire (talk) 00:36, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Lavallen is pretty much administrative division task force, I would trust him :). TomT0m (talk) 17:23, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, P132 (P132), of course, sitting at the laptop, with not as much tools and windows as I usually have!!! -- Lavallen (talk) 18:01, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
(side note Lavallen and others) please use the {{P}} template :) magic numbers are not really readable to everyone, and can make other people allergic :) TomT0m (talk) 18:13, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
@TomT0m: Absolutly, the problem was that I was sitting at the laptop, where the keyboard do not have the normal standard, and I find it hard to find such things as { and }. I really have to buy a second desktop so we do not have this problem every time my wife want's to look at Netflix with widescreen. -- Lavallen (talk) 06:50, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Protect properties’ labels

It seems to me that properties’ labels are a popular target of spam – which makes sense, since changing the label of instance of or topic’s main category is done very easily and visible on a large part of Wikidata. I therefore suggest that the labels of properties should be protected in some way, for example by only allowing edits by autopatrollers, or by only displaying the last patrolled label. --DSGalaktos (talk) 22:54, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

There is another solution that could work with no technical changes: to semi-protect high-risk properties (that are used on thousands or millions of items). We already semi- or full-protect high risk templates, after all. --Jakob (talk) 23:55, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
This could potentially be accomplished by an abuse filter, but I think it needs consensus.--Jasper Deng (talk) 23:56, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Please keep in mind that even popular properties still need translations in rare languages. We have to be careful not to lock out inexperienced users. --Kolja21 (talk) 03:13, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
I think we should use abuse filter to prevent changes to the English labels by anons, or maybe prevent changes to non-blank labels in the primary languages. John Vandenberg (talk) 05:56, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
@Jasper Deng, John Vandenberg: For the time being, I modified the filter tagging URLs to catch URLs inserted into properties. Matěj Suchánek (talk) 07:10, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Does this really matter? These can be reverted very quickly, and they're not all that public-facing... --Yair rand (talk) 03:48, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Chancel Q1076572 /Choir Q207707 mixing up

I think there's some mixing up between these two.

  • choir (Q1076572), english "Chancel, space around the altar in the sanctuary at the liturgical east end of a traditional Christian church"
  • choir (Q207707), Choir, at English Wikipedia linked to "Choir (architecture)". No definition here at Wikidata, as far as I can see, but the article at enwp says "the area of a church or cathedral that provides seating for the clergy and choir. It is usually in the western part of the chancel between the nave and the sanctuary (which houses the altar)"

The subjects are highly related. In my language, Swedish, the word for the part of the church where the altar is originally meant the part of the church where the choir was seated. So our word for chancel is very similar to the English word choir. This may be true in other languages as well, and the reason for matching wrongly. I recently moved the Swedish article "kor" from Q207707 Choir to Q1076572 Chancel, but I think the confusion is greater than just concerning the Swedish language. This image https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Binnenchor.svg has the chancel highlighted. Languages having this image in the article linked not to chancel Q1076572 but to choir/"choir (architecture)" are af, br, ca, cs, da, de, et, eo, fr, fy, ko, he, hr, hu, nl, no, nn, pt, ru, sk, uk, vls.

The articles in both Norwedian versions and in Danish certainly are about the Chancel rather than Choir. The others I dare not say. How to sort this out is beyond me. --Stighammar (talk) 22:16, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

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